A look back at 2017 Wolves FA/Offseason

[Monster]

Sacrificed a ton of young/future assets? All I see is Lavine, Dunn's value would have only dropped worse as we can see by his pre-season with the bulls. I guess I just don't see much sacrificing at all

LaVine, Dunn, and the #5 pick (whoever we would have taken). I think LaVine's potential was close to Wiggins' potential and Dunn was already an above average defender.

I'm not suggesting that I am or was against the trade. I think in a vacuum it was a good trade. After that, I thought Thibs made a series of questionable moves that didn't do the best job surrounding Butler/Wiggins/KAT with the right pieces. I hope I'm wrong!

Q - I agree that we overpaid for Gibson and i also agree that LaVine may end up being as good or better than Wiggins. But we both agree the Butler deal was a good move for the franchise. More importantly, I'm interested in your thinking on some free agents or draft prospects we could have potentially gotten who would have been what you'd consider the right pieces around Butler, Wiggins and KAT.

Well, you and I are on the same page as it relates to the Butler move....great deal, BUT I would have somehow tried to snag that 2nd rounder from Chicago and drafted Jordan Bell! Let's remember, he was sold to Golden State for cash, so it's not like Chicago was asking the moon for that pick. So right there is one thing I would have done differently.

The second thing I would have done was kept Rubio on what is a good value deal instead of churning him out for a PG that is basically in the same middle tier of NBA starting PGs and paying more money.

Third, I would have gone HARD after Joe Ingles to be our 3rd wing. I think he compliments Butler/Wiggins waaaay more than either Bazz or Crawford. Handles, shoots the 3, defends, passes. Does all the complimentary stuff you need when you already have three big-time scorers on the roster.

Fourth, I would have signed Patrick Patterson instead of Taj Gibson. Better deal and more 3-point shooting.

But that's just me. I certainly wouldn't give Thibs anything less than a B+ for the offseason - getting Butler was a big-time move. But I kind of feel like he didn't spend his money very effectively after that. Bazz was re-signed on a solid deal, but folks already know how I feel about him....he hurts us more than helps.

Ingles would be a nice complimentary player. I wonder how much more would have had to pay to get him from the Jazz. I just looked at his contract and they are being smart having his contract start as the biggest number and decreasing each year. I'll be curious to see how his career plays out. I'm not as big of a fan of his as you but I really like him as well.

Q did you know Patterson isn't healthy from the last knee procedure he had in August? Advanced stats do LOVE Patterson though.

I would have loved to add Jordon Bell also. There was some interview this offseason where Thibs mentioned they tried to get a pick. How hard did they try? Idk I still think the Bulls likely preferred to deal that pick to another team than have another shot at possibly being fleeced by Thibs in another trade. I bet they and other teams in the 2nd round had a fair amount of offers. Sometimes I think those deals are done because of some relationship between the teams doing the deal. Let's see if Thibs has found and develops a young worthwhile player from guys he has or will bring in this year.

[Lipoli390]

Sacrificed a ton of young/future assets? All I see is Lavine, Dunn's value would have only dropped worse as we can see by his pre-season with the bulls. I guess I just don't see much sacrificing at all

LaVine, Dunn, and the #5 pick (whoever we would have taken). I think LaVine's potential was close to Wiggins' potential and Dunn was already an above average defender.

I'm not suggesting that I am or was against the trade. I think in a vacuum it was a good trade. After that, I thought Thibs made a series of questionable moves that didn't do the best job surrounding Butler/Wiggins/KAT with the right pieces. I hope I'm wrong!

Q - I agree that we overpaid for Gibson and i also agree that LaVine may end up being as good or better than Wiggins. But we both agree the Butler deal was a good move for the franchise. More importantly, I'm interested in your thinking on some free agents or draft prospects we could have potentially gotten who would have been what you'd consider the right pieces around Butler, Wiggins and KAT.

Well, you and I are on the same page as it relates to the Butler move....great deal, BUT I would have somehow tried to snag that 2nd rounder from Chicago and drafted Jordan Bell! Let's remember, he was sold to Golden State for cash, so it's not like Chicago was asking the moon for that pick. So right there is one thing I would have done differently.

The second thing I would have done was kept Rubio on what is a good value deal instead of churning him out for a PG that is basically in the same middle tier of NBA starting PGs and paying more money.

Third, I would have gone HARD after Joe Ingles to be our 3rd wing. I think he compliments Butler/Wiggins waaaay more than either Bazz or Crawford. Handles, shoots the 3, defends, passes. Does all the complimentary stuff you need when you already have three big-time scorers on the roster.

Fourth, I would have signed Patrick Patterson instead of Taj Gibson. Better deal and more 3-point shooting.

But that's just me. I certainly wouldn't give Thibs anything less than a B+ for the offseason - getting Butler was a big-time move. But I kind of feel like he didn't spend his money very effectively after that. Bazz was re-signed on a solid deal, but folks already know how I feel about him....he hurts us more than helps.

Q - It appears we are on the same page entirely.

First, I agre with you completely that Thibs should have held out for Chicago's 2nd round pick and drafted Jordan Bell. We could have added cash to our side of the offer or even next year's 2nd round pick. Does anyone really think the Bulls would have refused to do the Butler deal if it meant exchanging their 2nd round pick for cash or the Wolves 2018 2nd rounder? There is no way the Bulls would have killed the deal over that. How do I know? Because they ended up selling their 2nd rounder for cash.

Second, I agree on keeping Rubio. I just don't see Teague as an overall upgrade. I think we would have been better off with Ricky and the extra $5 million in cap room. I also agree we should have signed Patterson instead of Gibson for two reasons. First, Patterson is a better fit for the Wolves given his 3-point shooting ability and the Wolves obvious need for 3-point shooting. Second, it would have saved us another $7 million in cap space.

Third, I agree we should have gone hard after Ingles for all the reasons you gave. If not Ingles, then Tony Snell. I think we could have gotten one or the other with the $12 million we would have had by keeping Ricky and signing Patterson rather than Gibson. I have to believe that Ingles could have been sold on the idea of a likely 6th man role playing for a team likely to make the playoffs and with the potential to be a top 4 team in the West. And we still would have had the Room Exception to sign Crawford although I would have been more inclined to use that exception on a 3-point shooter like Morrow.

My only disagreement with you is on Bazz. I think he helps more than he hurts. So I'm thrilled we were able to sign him for the vet minimum.

I suspect my overall concern with this team lines up with your thinking. My main concern is that we don't have floor spacers on this team. Butler and Wiggins are very similar offensive players, except that Butler is a much better ball-handler, distributor, rebounder and defender. Otherwise, they both score primarily by driving to the basket, scoring in the paint and oftent drawing fouls. Last season, Butler was 3rd in the NBA in the number of drives per game. Wiggins was 5th. KAT is probably our best 3-point shooter, but he's more of an inside player, scoring on post-ups or driving to the hoop. Teague's at his best driving to the bucket. Taj and Dieng has shown some 3-point range, but both generally get their limited points in the paint or from midrange. So all five our our starters are primarily in-the-paint/mid-range scorers. That's not a particularly good formula for success in today's NBA.

Nevertheless, we are a very talented team and barring serious injury issues, this team should absolutely make the playoffs. I'm out on a limb predicting 51 wins and a top 5 finish, but my prediction really turns three things in addition to the acquisition of Butler: (1) KAT getting far more looks from behind the arc and defending much better; (2) substantial improvement from Wiggins as a defender, rebounder and 3-point shooter, and (3) Bazz having the break-out year I think he's capable of, significantly improving his 3-point shot and becoming one of the League's better rotation players off the bench.