Should the Wolves tank the season now?

[kekgeek]

Only KAT has earned playing time. I'd give out minutes based on playing hard on both ends. Just giving minutes to Edwards or whoever because they are young sends the wrong message. We don't want to make the Thibs mistake of giving mega minutes to KAT, Lavine and Wiggins when they only played hard on offense. And just because DLO has a max contract doesn't mean he shouldn't be benched if he's not playing hard on defense as both the Nets and Lakers benched his a$$ when he loafed too much.

The big difference is that is not how the NBA works. Players like Edwards, Culver will get every opportunity to continue to improve because they make more money and they are a more negative asset if they can't provide anything. Im serious when I say this when is the last time a max player was legit benched on any organization. It just doesn't happen. Dlo will continue to play even if he is hurting the team (I do think he has been a lot better lately, but he was bad the last 5 minutes yesterday). I mean look at the closing line up at the end of the Grizzlies game. Dlo, Rubio, Beasley, Hernangomez and Kat. What do those people have in common, they are the wolves highest paid players.

The reason the wolves have sucked for year after year after year is the Wolves are stuck in the cycle of young players continuing to learn bad habits on a losing team because there is no defined roles on the roster and the organization only cares about a 3rd of the season before the wolves are out of the playoff hunt.

Wolves need to get lucky and add multiple players that are talented and know how to win in the draft. Wiggins didn't win at Kansas, Lavine didn't win at UCLA, Tyus knew how to win but wasn't a special talent. Wolves need guys who know how to do both. Edwards looks so far like he is in that Wiggins/Lavine category that are talented but have never learned to win. Personally I think Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

[KG4Ever]

Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

[thedoper]

The biggest problem with this franchise has always been the lack of accountability. There has been a shit product for years. Players play worse here because there is no expectation for them to be better. No we should never be ok with losing, and until that actually changes on all levels of this franchise, we are going to get the same results regardless of who we draft.

[kekgeek]

Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

Only KAT has earned playing time. I'd give out minutes based on playing hard on both ends. Just giving minutes to Edwards or whoever because they are young sends the wrong message. We don't want to make the Thibs mistake of giving mega minutes to KAT, Lavine and Wiggins when they only played hard on offense. And just because DLO has a max contract doesn't mean he shouldn't be benched if he's not playing hard on defense as both the Nets and Lakers benched his a$$ when he loafed too much.

The big difference is that is not how the NBA works. Players like Edwards, Culver will get every opportunity to continue to improve because they make more money and they are a more negative asset if they can't provide anything. Im serious when I say this when is the last time a max player was legit benched on any organization. It just doesn't happen. Dlo will continue to play even if he is hurting the team (I do think he has been a lot better lately, but he was bad the last 5 minutes yesterday). I mean look at the closing line up at the end of the Grizzlies game. Dlo, Rubio, Beasley, Hernangomez and Kat. What do those people have in common, they are the wolves highest paid players.

The reason the wolves have sucked for year after year after year is the Wolves are stuck in the cycle of young players continuing to learn bad habits on a losing team because there is no defined roles on the roster and the organization only cares about a 3rd of the season before the wolves are out of the playoff hunt.

Wolves need to get lucky and add multiple players that are talented and know how to win in the draft. Wiggins didn't win at Kansas, Lavine didn't win at UCLA, Tyus knew how to win but wasn't a special talent. Wolves need guys who know how to do both. Edwards looks so far like he is in that Wiggins/Lavine category that are talented but have never learned to win. Personally I think Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

Are you trying to be a dick or is that just the way you come across?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

Only KAT has earned playing time. I'd give out minutes based on playing hard on both ends. Just giving minutes to Edwards or whoever because they are young sends the wrong message. We don't want to make the Thibs mistake of giving mega minutes to KAT, Lavine and Wiggins when they only played hard on offense. And just because DLO has a max contract doesn't mean he shouldn't be benched if he's not playing hard on defense as both the Nets and Lakers benched his a$$ when he loafed too much.

The big difference is that is not how the NBA works. Players like Edwards, Culver will get every opportunity to continue to improve because they make more money and they are a more negative asset if they can't provide anything. Im serious when I say this when is the last time a max player was legit benched on any organization. It just doesn't happen. Dlo will continue to play even if he is hurting the team (I do think he has been a lot better lately, but he was bad the last 5 minutes yesterday). I mean look at the closing line up at the end of the Grizzlies game. Dlo, Rubio, Beasley, Hernangomez and Kat. What do those people have in common, they are the wolves highest paid players.

The reason the wolves have sucked for year after year after year is the Wolves are stuck in the cycle of young players continuing to learn bad habits on a losing team because there is no defined roles on the roster and the organization only cares about a 3rd of the season before the wolves are out of the playoff hunt.

Wolves need to get lucky and add multiple players that are talented and know how to win in the draft. Wiggins didn't win at Kansas, Lavine didn't win at UCLA, Tyus knew how to win but wasn't a special talent. Wolves need guys who know how to do both. Edwards looks so far like he is in that Wiggins/Lavine category that are talented but have never learned to win. Personally I think Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

Ha. Wolvesfan21 trying extra hard with that one.




Are you trying to be a dick or is that just the way you come across?

Legit serious, how was i being a dick here? I think to break the cycle we need to add a guy who knows how to win! Obviously Jimmy didn't go about it the right way but he raised the expectations for players in the organization. Iggy was added to the Warriors. Paul was added to the Clippers and now the suns and the young guys are learning how to win. Usually with consistently bad organizations you need to have talented players like Kat/curry/ Booker and a guy who can add accountability and expectations like Butler/iggy/ Paul

[TheFuture]

Meanwhile Wiggins:

Last 10 games -
17.8 PPG, 49.3% FG, 38.9% 3PT, 4.2 REB, 2.6 AST, 1.6 BLK


"Wiggins' on-ball defense has opponents shooting 40.0 percent, better than such respected defenders as Oklahoma City's Luguentz Dort (43.3), Boston's Jaylen Brown (43.5) and Toronto's Pascal Siakam (44.0).

On shots from 15 feet or further, where many wings thrive, the failure rate against Wiggins is 67.4 percent, roughly the same as Los Angeles Lakers star Anthony Davis (67.5) and better than Los Angeles Clippers star Kawhi Leonard (61.4) and Portland's 3-and-D wing Robert Covington (59.3). The failure rate against Mavericks forward Dorian Finney-Smith, considered a "defensive specialist," is 63.9."

[kekgeek]

Meanwhile Wiggins:

Last 10 games -
17.8 PPG, 49.3% FG, 38.9% 3PT, 4.2 REB, 2.6 AST, 1.6 BLK


"Wiggins' on-ball defense has opponents shooting 40.0 percent, better than such respected defenders as Oklahoma City's Luguentz Dort (43.3), Boston's Jaylen Brown (43.5) and Toronto's Pascal Siakam (44.0).

On shots from 15 feet or further, where many wings thrive, the failure rate against Wiggins is 67.4 percent, roughly the same as Los Angeles Lakers star Anthony Davis (67.5) and better than Los Angeles Clippers star Kawhi Leonard (61.4) and Portland's 3-and-D wing Robert Covington (59.3). The failure rate against Mavericks forward Dorian Finney-Smith, considered a "defensive specialist," is 63.9."

To be fair Wiggins has had really good stretches in his career. His season has been very comparable to the rest of career

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We need to try and win because losing doesn't net us anything. But try and win with the guys you are going to move forward with. The sad truth is I don't think we need to try to tank, it's going to happen naturally

Yeah, it's already happening naturally. Poor play (Layman), Injuries (KAT), and Covid (KAT, Rubio, Juancho) have forced Ryan to give nearly every young guy regular minutes. Nowell is the only guy that I think deserves a shot that hasn't gotten one yet. I think it's just a matter of time.

[Wolvesfan21]

Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

Only KAT has earned playing time. I'd give out minutes based on playing hard on both ends. Just giving minutes to Edwards or whoever because they are young sends the wrong message. We don't want to make the Thibs mistake of giving mega minutes to KAT, Lavine and Wiggins when they only played hard on offense. And just because DLO has a max contract doesn't mean he shouldn't be benched if he's not playing hard on defense as both the Nets and Lakers benched his a$$ when he loafed too much.

The big difference is that is not how the NBA works. Players like Edwards, Culver will get every opportunity to continue to improve because they make more money and they are a more negative asset if they can't provide anything. Im serious when I say this when is the last time a max player was legit benched on any organization. It just doesn't happen. Dlo will continue to play even if he is hurting the team (I do think he has been a lot better lately, but he was bad the last 5 minutes yesterday). I mean look at the closing line up at the end of the Grizzlies game. Dlo, Rubio, Beasley, Hernangomez and Kat. What do those people have in common, they are the wolves highest paid players.

The reason the wolves have sucked for year after year after year is the Wolves are stuck in the cycle of young players continuing to learn bad habits on a losing team because there is no defined roles on the roster and the organization only cares about a 3rd of the season before the wolves are out of the playoff hunt.

Wolves need to get lucky and add multiple players that are talented and know how to win in the draft. Wiggins didn't win at Kansas, Lavine didn't win at UCLA, Tyus knew how to win but wasn't a special talent. Wolves need guys who know how to do both. Edwards looks so far like he is in that Wiggins/Lavine category that are talented but have never learned to win. Personally I think Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

Ha. Wolvesfan21 trying extra hard with that one.




Are you trying to be a dick or is that just the way you come across?

Legit serious, how was i being a dick here? I think to break the cycle we need to add a guy who knows how to win! Obviously Jimmy didn't go about it the right way but he raised the expectations for players in the organization. Iggy was added to the Warriors. Paul was added to the Clippers and now the suns and the young guys are learning how to win. Usually with consistently bad organizations you need to have talented players like Kat/curry/ Booker and a guy who can add accountability and expectations like Butler/iggy/ Paul

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I think it's top 3 protected. And with the more flattened odds of winning the lottery, the chance of even the worst team getting a top 3 pick is definitely diminished. We could easily tank, have one of the worst records in the league, and still not keep our pick. Think about the impact on team morale.

I guess you could say we're arguably already the team with the worst reputation in the league and a horrific tradition of losing, so how much worse could it be? But really, no, I can't get on board with that. Seriously, this team is probably at risk of getting sold and moved, and tanking would just soil our reputation further and make that a greater likelihood.

Kiwi and Cool are right. We have to turn this franchise around, and tanking can't be the answer.

Actually, I have a question for the longtime guys who have been here forever. I can't even believe I'm writing this, but your post prompted me, WolvesFan, so here goes: When you guys watch losing season after losing season, and see gut-wrenching losses like last night, is there any part of you that actually thinks maybe we deserve to get sold and moved? Any part of you that secretly hopes for it?

It would devastate me, but sometimes, in these bleak, dark days, a small part of me kind of wants it to end. I'd lose something that's been so valuable to me over the years (2 decades of pretty intense fandom now), but it's just felt abusive, honestly, to be a fan of this team. If they moved, at least we could be a little more free to just be NBA fans generally. I love basketball, all of it, not just this team. I'd be able to spend more time actually watching good basketball on a regular basis instead of this never-ending nightmare.

Obviously, it's easier for me to say because I don't live in Minnesota and can't go to games there anyway (I actually became a fan just as I moved away from the state for what's turned out to be a really long time, maybe forever). I guess if the team moved, I could still be a fan, although honestly, I probably wouldn't. Why would I want to? Who in Seattle follows OKC? It would be an excuse for me to finally end this relationship.

Of course, I'd lose the investment I'd have in this team--the hope that maybe our next pick could blossom and turn things around, or even possibly the feeling of excitement if this team were ever competitive again. I feel excitement when we play well. I feel hurt when we lose. Those feelings are valuable, and I wouldn't want to lose them. But so often a part of me feels like I don't get enough of the positive feelings from this team to offset even remotely all the negative feelings this team causes me. I've poured so much time and attention and emotion into this team for so long that losing the team would feel a bit like all that's been wasted. But that sounds like the rationalization of a person who can't break out of a really unhealthy relationship, and if anybody ever told me that they felt like that about a relationship with another person, I'd tell them to get the hell out. A relationship with a person and a relationship with a team are not quite the same thing, but it's pretty damn close.

Honestly, this board and my need for (probably irrational) hope in the future are the main reasons why I didn't give up long ago. Anybody else feel like this?

For how much as the Wolves have sucked for 20 years (Wolves have probably have had 3 "fun" seasons in that span). I do not want them to move. Right or wrong this board is all apart of us. I check this board every day and the board will lose a lot if they were not based in Minnesota. We wouldn't get Lip game reports, Im lucky enough to have a buddy who gives me tickets that are in the 2nd row and I've had great memories at Target center even though the Wolves suck. I have a buddy who works in the Wolves organization as one of the head graphic designers and I would hate for the Wolves to move. Wolves are part of our lives, it is an abusive relationship but I would feel really weird if the Wolves moved and I was not apart of the growth in the organization.

Also Minnesota is a great basketball State. Minnesota had 4 players drafted in this years draft. Minnesota Gophers have a top 20 team this year. Minnesota HS has a chance to produce the #1 overall NBA pick in the 2021 and 2022 draft class (Suggs and Holmgren), Minnesota might of just produced the best Womans basketball player in the last 10 years in Pagie Bueckers (plays at UCONN was the #1 recruit in HS played at Hopkins). Famous parents in Master P are moving his kids to Minnesota to play at Minnehaha Academy. Minnehaha Academy might be the #1 HS team in the nation. Minnesota is a sleeping giant when it comes to basketball. Wolves are just not good but they have the fanbase to be special if they ever get there.

Good stuff here Kek. You're right about Minnesota becoming a hotbed for elite H.S. basketball prospects, something that we were absolutely not known for back when I lived there.

Also, don't forget the Lynx and the success of that team under Cheryl Reeve.

I go back to the beginning of the franchise and attended some of their first games in the Dome with my Dad or buddies. My parents were season ticket-holders for over 20 years and I would always go to a game when I was home for the holidays. So I have a sentimental attachment which is hard to shake.