Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:Wiseman is just a 7 foot Wiggins.


Give me Obi Toppin

And herein lies the problem. If there is no consensus of a top player or top 4 players, the idea of tanking is pretty much useless. Not that I ever advocate it, but especially not when no can even identify who the true prizes are.

Some team will always talk themselves into love with even questionable lottery guys. A savvy organization will take advantage of that.

Back in 2011... the Wolves did not do this. SHOCKER! They took Derrick Williams at #2 despite him being a solid but not earth-shattering pick... even though he played the same position as the team's best player, Kevin Love. Two players at the same position, is it really a big deal?

Well, consider this airtight Wolves logic...

Only a few months prior... the Wolves decided that Kevin Love and Al Jefferson could not play together. They didn't play together nearly as much as most fans wanted to see. Fast forward... what do the Wolves do? They go against their own strategy and draft Williams who was a PF like Love. Ummmm... ok.

I'm still unsure why that team didn't try trade out of the pick.

- Kemba Walker
- Klay Thompson
- Kawhi Leonard
- Tobias Harris
- Jimmy Butler

All were in that draft... along with several other players who ended up with better careers than Derrick Williams.




EDIT: Seems like I'm not the only one still confused:

Derrick Williams: "I remember like it was yesterday .. when Minnesota picked me and I'm thinking .. so they have k love , Anthony randolph , mike Beasley, and me at the 4
Shit didn't add up to me."

WildWolf2813 wrote:Wiseman is just a 7 foot Wiggins.


Give me Obi Toppin

Disagree on both accounts. Obi Toppin will be 22-years old at the time of the draft and he's got just as many question marks in his game as he does strengths. A fine prospect, but not one worthy of a top-five or even top-seven draft pick, which is where I'm assuming the Wolves will land after the lottery.

As for the comment about James Wiseman, I don't see any similarities between the two other than both look to be the most physically-gifted athletes in their draft classes. Other than that, your comment falls in the "silly" category for me, respectfully.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:Wiseman is just a 7 foot Wiggins.


Give me Obi Toppin

And herein lies the problem. If there is no consensus of a top player or top 4 players, the idea of tanking is pretty much useless. Not that I ever advocate it, but especially not when no can even identify who the true prizes are.

Some team will always talk themselves into love with even questionable lottery guys. A savvy organization will take advantage of that.

Back in 2011... the Wolves did not do this. SHOCKER! They took Derrick Williams at #2 despite him being a solid but not earth-shattering pick... even though he played the same position as the team's best player, Kevin Love. Two players at the same position, is it really a big deal?

Well, consider this airtight Wolves logic...

Only a few months prior... the Wolves decided that Kevin Love and Al Jefferson could not play together. They didn't play together nearly as much as most fans wanted to see. Fast forward... what do the Wolves do? They go against their own strategy and draft Williams who was a PF like Love. Ummmm... ok.

I'm still unsure why that team didn't try trade out of the pick.

- Kemba Walker
- Klay Thompson
- Kawhi Leonard
- Tobias Harris
- Jimmy Butler

All were in that draft... along with several other players who ended up with better careers than Derrick Williams.




EDIT: Seems like I'm not the only one still confused:

Derrick Williams: "I remember like it was yesterday .. when Minnesota picked me and I'm thinking .. so they have k love , Anthony randolph , mike Beasley, and me at the 4
Shit didn't add up to me."

This probably should be in the Wolves Cursed Chronicles thread.

I do think there were people that though Williams may have been a SF. Q was lowest of anyone on this board on him and Q said Williams the caged lion was going to be more of a good role player...nope. It was a big whiff and even if they drafted a guy that played the same position as other guys Williams just flat out sucked. There was simply some bad luck there. I still say I would have traded down and taken Kanter. It wouldn't have been a home run and we had lots of bigs including Pek but the Jazz didn't have a problem finding a way to have all their glut of bigs...and they didn't suck. Willams was an example of how Kahn in his infinite wisdom...wasn't even strong enough in his own delusional opinions. I don't even think he was that sold on Williams himself based on his comments about the pick.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:Wiseman is just a 7 foot Wiggins.


Give me Obi Toppin

And herein lies the problem. If there is no consensus of a top player or top 4 players, the idea of tanking is pretty much useless. Not that I ever advocate it, but especially not when no can even identify who the true prizes are.

Some team will always talk themselves into love with even questionable lottery guys. A savvy organization will take advantage of that.

Back in 2011... the Wolves did not do this. SHOCKER! They took Derrick Williams at #2 despite him being a solid but not earth-shattering pick... even though he played the same position as the team's best player, Kevin Love. Two players at the same position, is it really a big deal?

Well, consider this airtight Wolves logic...

Only a few months prior... the Wolves decided that Kevin Love and Al Jefferson could not play together. They didn't play together nearly as much as most fans wanted to see. Fast forward... what do the Wolves do? They go against their own strategy and draft Williams who was a PF like Love. Ummmm... ok.

I'm still unsure why that team didn't try trade out of the pick.

- Kemba Walker
- Klay Thompson
- Kawhi Leonard
- Tobias Harris
- Jimmy Butler

All were in that draft... along with several other players who ended up with better careers than Derrick Williams.




EDIT: Seems like I'm not the only one still confused:

Derrick Williams: "I remember like it was yesterday .. when Minnesota picked me and I'm thinking .. so they have k love , Anthony randolph , mike Beasley, and me at the 4
Shit didn't add up to me."

This probably should be in the Wolves Cursed Chronicles thread.

I do think there were people that though Williams may have been a SF. Q was lowest of anyone on this board on him and Q said Williams the caged lion was going to be more of a good role player...nope. It was a big whiff and even if they drafted a guy that played the same position as other guys Williams just flat out sucked. There was simply some bad luck there. I still say I would have traded down and taken Kanter. It wouldn't have been a home run and we had lots of bigs including Pek but the Jazz didn't have a problem finding a way to have all their glut of bigs...and they didn't suck. Willams was an example of how Kahn in his infinite wisdom...wasn't even strong enough in his own delusional opinions. I don't even think he was that sold on Williams himself based on his comments about the pick.

It's funny to look at old articles. Even the articles in favor of Williams have the caveat "If the Wolves ignore trade requests and keep Williams..."

thedoper wrote:Are we skipping over Edwards because of positional fit? I sure hope not. I agree a shot blocking big would be nice next to Towns, but our wings are hardly stars too. I'd still draft any position for this team.

I'm skipping over him because he can't shoot and 3 SG's who can't shoot on the same team is a problem.

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Are we skipping over Edwards because of positional fit? I sure hope not. I agree a shot blocking big would be nice next to Towns, but our wings are hardly stars too. I'd still draft any position for this team.

Anthony Edwards has all the natural talent in the world and great physical makeup to boot, but his shot selection is atrocious and his ability to remain engaged on the court is iffy at best. If you read that and shivered at the thought of having to watch that kind of player again, I'm right there with you. I don't think he's a winning player at the next level. Looks the part, talks the talk, but essentially won't be "that guy." He's still in the top-10 for me, but mainly on tools, talent, and the theory of potential. Based on where we should be drafting, I'd look elsewhere or look to trade the pick to a suitor who might want Edwards more than they probably should.

I get the worry, but the draft has never been a perfect science for anyone. We cant let our trauma get in the way of taking the most talented player. At least he's playing. Id take Edwards ups and downs over a kid that walked away from his team and sat out all year. I'd consider the latter a greater red flag. I do agree with the idea that if someone is in love with Edwards make a smart trade.

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Are we skipping over Edwards because of positional fit? I sure hope not. I agree a shot blocking big would be nice next to Towns, but our wings are hardly stars too. I'd still draft any position for this team.

Anthony Edwards has all the natural talent in the world and great physical makeup to boot, but his shot selection is atrocious and his ability to remain engaged on the court is iffy at best. If you read that and shivered at the thought of having to watch that kind of player again, I'm right there with you. I don't think he's a winning player at the next level. Looks the part, talks the talk, but essentially won't be "that guy." He's still in the top-10 for me, but mainly on tools, talent, and the theory of potential. Based on where we should be drafting, I'd look elsewhere or look to trade the pick to a suitor who might want Edwards more than they probably should.

I get the worry, but the draft has never been a perfect science for anyone. We cant let our trauma get in the way of taking the most talented player. At least he's playing. Id take Edwards ups and downs over a kid that walked away from his team and sat out all year. I'd consider the latter a greater red flag. I do agree with the idea that if someone is in love with Edwards make a smart trade.

I understand your point with Edwards, but talent is only part of the equation. The other factors include whether or not said prospect will realize that talent and/or utilize it to the best of his abilities. I'm skeptical that Edwards will be anything more than Tyreke Evans after his rookie season and before he developed a three-point shot (2010-2014 range).

Just to clarify, is the bolded section what you think James Wiseman did? Or are you referencing something else and I just didn't understand?

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Are we skipping over Edwards because of positional fit? I sure hope not. I agree a shot blocking big would be nice next to Towns, but our wings are hardly stars too. I'd still draft any position for this team.

Anthony Edwards has all the natural talent in the world and great physical makeup to boot, but his shot selection is atrocious and his ability to remain engaged on the court is iffy at best. If you read that and shivered at the thought of having to watch that kind of player again, I'm right there with you. I don't think he's a winning player at the next level. Looks the part, talks the talk, but essentially won't be "that guy." He's still in the top-10 for me, but mainly on tools, talent, and the theory of potential. Based on where we should be drafting, I'd look elsewhere or look to trade the pick to a suitor who might want Edwards more than they probably should.

I get the worry, but the draft has never been a perfect science for anyone. We cant let our trauma get in the way of taking the most talented player. At least he's playing. Id take Edwards ups and downs over a kid that walked away from his team and sat out all year. I'd consider the latter a greater red flag. I do agree with the idea that if someone is in love with Edwards make a smart trade.

I understand your point with Edwards, but talent is only part of the equation. The other factors include whether or not said prospect will realize that talent and/or utilize it to the best of his abilities. I'm skeptical that Edwards will be anything more than Tyreke Evans after his rookie season and before he developed a three-point shot (2010-2014 range).

Just to clarify, is the bolded section what you think James Wiseman did? Or are you referencing something else and I just didn't understand?

Yes its about Wiseman. I realize he was in a hard place, but I'd feel much more comfortable about his character if he sucked it up and did the right thing.

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Are we skipping over Edwards because of positional fit? I sure hope not. I agree a shot blocking big would be nice next to Towns, but our wings are hardly stars too. I'd still draft any position for this team.

Anthony Edwards has all the natural talent in the world and great physical makeup to boot, but his shot selection is atrocious and his ability to remain engaged on the court is iffy at best. If you read that and shivered at the thought of having to watch that kind of player again, I'm right there with you. I don't think he's a winning player at the next level. Looks the part, talks the talk, but essentially won't be "that guy." He's still in the top-10 for me, but mainly on tools, talent, and the theory of potential. Based on where we should be drafting, I'd look elsewhere or look to trade the pick to a suitor who might want Edwards more than they probably should.

I get the worry, but the draft has never been a perfect science for anyone. We cant let our trauma get in the way of taking the most talented player. At least he's playing. Id take Edwards ups and downs over a kid that walked away from his team and sat out all year. I'd consider the latter a greater red flag. I do agree with the idea that if someone is in love with Edwards make a smart trade.

I understand your point with Edwards, but talent is only part of the equation. The other factors include whether or not said prospect will realize that talent and/or utilize it to the best of his abilities. I'm skeptical that Edwards will be anything more than Tyreke Evans after his rookie season and before he developed a three-point shot (2010-2014 range).

Just to clarify, is the bolded section what you think James Wiseman did? Or are you referencing something else and I just didn't understand?

Yes its about Wiseman. I realize he was in a hard place, but I'd feel much more comfortable about his character if he sucked it up and did the right thing.

I haven't been following his situation. I just read one article and it seems one significant problem keeping him from doing "the right thing" was before he could play he has to come up with that $11,000 On his own. Was he not able to pay it by getting a loan which might have been the case if his parents don't own anything worth borrowing against. I think I'd be more worried after reading his comments that this event traumatized the guy and he may never be the same. That's different than questioning his character.

Meanwhile the guy played 3 college games and it looks like only one was against a quality opponent in Oregon. I know this guy has been a top prospect of this class for a while but...this is not a ton to go on. Let's just say I'm not dying to get the guy although I haven't done much research on his talent/game etc. In this draft would a team be better off picking lower and having a smaller salary? Like seriously? I can't wait to fire up the trade down scenarios! Lol

I empathize with the argument pertaining to the small sample size of games that we have of James Wiseman playing against collegiate competition, but the knocks on his character or how he handled his situation at Memphis seems very off to me. Not only was Wiseman suspended for 12 games in part because of a wonky classification that his former high school coach Penny Hardaway was a booster, but the NCAA also stipulated Wiseman was required to donate $11,500 to a charity of his choosing. He could not receive outside help nor could he accept any money from GoFundMe pages set up in his support -- including the one ESPN's Jay Williams created and used his platform to push forward. As he puts it in the following video link, he just didn't have that kind of money being a regular college kid. A weird punishment for the "crime" if you ask me, but it is what it is.

Additionally, you cannot say this kid doesn't love basketball. In that ESPN sit-down with Wiseman, he says that everything was sad for him because he just wanted to play with his teammates and help the team. In regards to someone saying he was traumatized by these happenings, I think that's more so that he was upset he couldn't play what was likely going to be his only year of college basketball -- not that he's in any way mentally weak or unstable.

This guy is the clear-cut best prospect in this draft. He's a physical freak with skills and attitude to match. Areas of his game aren't refined yet, obviously, but his strengths are very real and translatable. He could step on an NBA court tomorrow and be legitimate factor. Also, the kid turns 19-years old in March. Plenty of maturing for his body and game left. High ceiling and high floor, in my opinion.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/dPrHow9uUBo[/youtube]