Woj-Wolves and Bulls talking Butler trade again

[Coolbreeze44]

I wouldn't lose sleep if push came to shove Thibs offered Wiggins but then again, I don't have this long term view of championship aspirations

Not only would it be a tragic move by the Wolves, it's just not happening. Sleep well.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I wouldn't lose sleep if push came to shove Thibs offered Wiggins but then again, I don't have this long term view of championship aspirations

Good point. There was a month or so last season where LaVine was outplaying Wiggins and it wasn't clear to me who had the most long-term upside. Then I think Wiggins got hot himself for a spell and eventually LaVine got hurt. But while I think Thibs is 100% invested in Wiggins, there is still a nagging part of me that wonders if LaVine is ultimately (and I mean 2-3 years from now) the better player.

[Duke13]

I just don't know if the right value is there for us. If we give them Zach, I would stop at Zach, Ricky and maybe Tyus if they need a second young asset. There's your starting backcourt for the next X years for Butler. I only give them the pick or Dunn if Zach, Wiggins, Towns is off the board. I don't want a Ricky/Butler backcourt and I don't know why they'd want Ricky and Dunn and I don't think Ricky+7 is enough. I just don't think the values matchup from our perspective.

Khans, I agree with 99% percent of your posts. This is no different. You're right on it in my opinion.

[WildWolf2813]

I wouldn't lose sleep if push came to shove Thibs offered Wiggins but then again, I don't have this long term view of championship aspirations

Not only would it be a tragic move by the Wolves, it's just not happening. Sleep well.

I don't think it would either, but I also don't think the Bulls are willing to make a trade with Thibodeau unless it's highway robbery and vice versa. That's why I don't even understand why these two sides have each other's numbers.

[Monster]

I don't see how the Celtics don't trump anything the Wolves would reaasonably offer.

They probably could but they might not want to give up assets when they can't beat the cavs now

If they added Butler they would be well on their way to competing and it would likely attract another top level FA this summer. I don't think the Bulls are basically going to settle for #7 for Butler and I don't think the Wolves are going to go much higher than that with anything of significant value.

[Coolbreeze44]

I wouldn't lose sleep if push came to shove Thibs offered Wiggins but then again, I don't have this long term view of championship aspirations

Not only would it be a tragic move by the Wolves, it's just not happening. Sleep well.

I don't think it would either, but I also don't think the Bulls are willing to make a trade with Thibodeau unless it's highway robbery and vice versa. That's why I don't even understand why these two sides have each other's numbers.

I think you're right on this. Can't see these two organizations being bed fellows.

[kekgeek]

I don't see how the Celtics don't trump anything the Wolves would reaasonably offer.

They probably could but they might not want to give up assets when they can't beat the cavs now

If they added Butler they would be well on their way to competing and it would likely attract another top level FA this summer. I don't think the Bulls are basically going to settle for #7 for Butler and I don't think the Wolves are going to go much higher than that with anything of significant value.

I'm not saying they won't do a trade.

But what is better blake griffin, #3 (Tatum) and the rest of the team still in place.

Or Butler and they would have to realistically trade crowder and the #3 pick. And if they want another max player they would have to realistically trade bradley also to get cap.

Also is a team of IT/Bradley/Butler/brown/horford good enough to win a championship next year. And Butler and IT are both high usage players. They still well need to pay smart, bradley and IT next year and Butler the year after that

[Monster]

I don't see how the Celtics don't trump anything the Wolves would reaasonably offer.

They probably could but they might not want to give up assets when they can't beat the cavs now

If they added Butler they would be well on their way to competing and it would likely attract another top level FA this summer. I don't think the Bulls are basically going to settle for #7 for Butler and I don't think the Wolves are going to go much higher than that with anything of significant value.

I'm not saying they won't do a trade.

But what is better blake griffin, #3 (Tatum) and the rest of the team still in place.

Or Butler and they would have to realistically trade crowder and the #3 pick. And if they want another max player they would have to realistically trade bradley also to get cap.

Also is a team of IT/Bradley/Butler/brown/horford good enough to win a championship next year. And Butler and IT are both high usage players. They still well need to pay smart, bradley and IT next year and Butler the year after that

The question for any of these trades is what value does the #7 pick have? I'm really not sure based on how I expect the draft to unfold. Of course if a guy falls...it could change things including the Wolves saying we are keeping the guy we wanted all along like they did last year.

[kekgeek]

I don't see how the Celtics don't trump anything the Wolves would reaasonably offer.

They probably could but they might not want to give up assets when they can't beat the cavs now

If they added Butler they would be well on their way to competing and it would likely attract another top level FA this summer. I don't think the Bulls are basically going to settle for #7 for Butler and I don't think the Wolves are going to go much higher than that with anything of significant value.

I'm not saying they won't do a trade.

But what is better blake griffin, #3 (Tatum) and the rest of the team still in place.

Or Butler and they would have to realistically trade crowder and the #3 pick. And if they want another max player they would have to realistically trade bradley also to get cap.

Also is a team of IT/Bradley/Butler/brown/horford good enough to win a championship next year. And Butler and IT are both high usage players. They still well need to pay smart, bradley and IT next year and Butler the year after that

The question for any of these trades is what value does the #7 pick have? I'm really not sure based on how I expect the draft to unfold. Of course if a guy falls...it could change things including the Wolves saying we are keeping the guy we wanted all along like they did last year.

I think we are sort of off here (probably my fault due to my poor grammar).

You said the Celtics can trump any offer the wolves would realistically make (I agree).

I am saying that I don't know if the Celtics are going to cash in assets to get Butler. They are in the perfect spot where they can "fake" compete with the Cavs and fans are still happy because they have all their assets still. And then if lebron leaves in 2018 out west they can "cash" in and go for it.

Now if the Celtics are off the table because they don't want to cash in, who can offer the most.

The wolves with assets of lavine, #7, Dunn, rubio, Dieng

Cavs: love

Suns: Bender, christ, #4, ulis.

I'm not sure. Or are any of these assets good enough

[Lipoli390]

If the Bulls trade Butler, it will be the first step in a major rebuild. That means they'll be looking for the best combination of draft picks and high-upside young players. The Celtics can obviously make the best off for what the Celtics will want and they can do it without disrupting their core. They have the #3 pick this year and all their own first and second round picks in future years. They also have what will likely be high lottery picks in next year's Nets' pick and the 2018 or 2019 first round pick they're getting from the Sixers. Add to all that talented young players who aren't central to their success like Kelly Olynyk, Terry Rozier and Marcus Smart. So if the Celtics want Butler, they'll get him unless the Wolves are willing to offer KAT or Wiggins.

Would the Celtics want to deal for Butler? I'm not sure. It would seem to make sense for them. They're a lot closer than the Wolves to title contention and Butler is the kind of guy you add when you're already very good and trying to get to the next level. Moreover, as discussed above, the Celtics can add Butler without giving up ANY key players. The Wolves can say the same. To have any chance of getting Butler, the Wolves would have to give up one of our core young talents in Wiggins or LaVine plus this year's #7 pick, leaving us without any other picks this year and probably no first round pick next season.

Should the Wolves pursue Butler? Not if it's a bidding war with the Celtics and not if it would mean giving up our #7 pick plus KAT, Wiggins or even LaVine. And make no mistake about it, our pick will have to be included in any realistic deal for Butler. I'm not excited at the prospect of giving up significant assets for a 28 year old whose has a history of physical issues that have resulting in him averaging about 65 games per season. But recognizing how good Butler is, I could get behind the following: #7 plus Ricky for Butler and Rondo. Do I think the Bulls would take that deal? No. But that's all I'd offer and if rejected, I'd move on with picking the best player available at #7 and using our nearly $30 million in cap space to improve our overall talent level.

Will the Wolves end up dealing for Butler? Only if the Celtics aren't interested or drive too hard a bargain. If the Celtics aren't intent on getting Butler, then I think the Wolves will end up with Butler and I think Thibs/Layden will grossly overpay to get him.

Final postscript. I have a friend who is close to someone in Reinsdorf's inner circle. That guy told my friend about a month ago that the Bulls expect Butler to be a Timberwolf by the end of the summer. The guy told my friend that Thibs is obsessed with getting Butler and the Bulls front office believes they can get a great return from the Wolves. My friend told me to keep this to myself, but what the hell. I suppose the Bulls ownership/front office would be misreading Thibs, but they are confident that they can extract a lot from the Wolves in exchange for Butler.