AbeVigodaLive wrote:It's downright amazing how the NBA escaped relatively unscathed from the Tim Donaghy debacle. David Stern had enough clout, power and sheer will to force the narrative that it was one rogue official... and people mostly bought it.
Amazing.
Remember, this happened before the latest talent boom. Think about the top story lines from that era... 10, 15 or 20 years later... and many of them involve questionable officiating.
Conspiracy theories were running rampant BEFORE one of the officials got busted. And yet... those conspiracies actually lost steam. David Stern is regaled as doing many great things for the league, but the way he browbeat that issue into submission was absolutely magnificent.
I remember betting on a game around 2004. At the end of the game the other team was blatantly intentionally fouling Chris Webber after the inbound with like 4-5 seconds left. It was within 1 of the line and had he made both it would have switched into my favor. He makes 1 and it was a push. I believe it was a 3 point game. Anyways the refs didn't blow the whistle and it blew my mind. I couldn't think anything else but they intentionally didn't call the foul. They hacked him hard. Two players did. I'm still pissed about it and I'm done betting on that crap.
WolvesFan21 wrote:I like the idea of reevaluating every call from every official from every game, then rating them and thus weeding out the poorer officials or ones who may be trying to influence the game for financial benefit. The NBA definitely has the man power and tools to do so and it would be wise especially now that gambling is becoming much more widespread.
They don't have to release the stats of the officials, but they can fire bad ones while promoting the best into the playoffs, etc.
They do, do this. That determines who refs playoff games and games deeper in the playoffs. They just don't release them to the public.
Also guys like Haralabob made a living NBA betting because he had advanced statistics on refs and their tendencies what he then used for his "model". (He now works for Mavs)
CoolBreeze44 wrote:As long as this topic came up, here's something I'm wondering about. Why is it that the slightest shuffle of the feet can draw a traveling call, but taking two steps to get in position for a 3 pointer is allowed just about 100% of the time. Anybody else see this the same way?
Because the gather rule has broken basketball and it's become the catch rule of the NBA. They just overthink it and try to apply the rule to the letter of the law even though they are just blatant travels most of the time. Did you see the recent Beal 5 step no call? The ref twitter doubled down and said it was not a travel because he got his 3 steps with the gather and then "lost" the ball (that never stop touching his left hand) while he took 2 more steps before he passed it.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:As long as this topic came up, here's something I'm wondering about. Why is it that the slightest shuffle of the feet can draw a traveling call, but taking two steps to get in position for a 3 pointer is allowed just about 100% of the time. Anybody else see this the same way?
Because the gather rule has broken basketball and it's become the catch rule of the NBA. They just overthink it and try to apply the rule to the letter of the law even though they are just blatant travels most of the time. Did you see the recent Beal 5 step no call? The ref twitter doubled down and said it was not a travel because he got his 3 steps with the gather and then "lost" the ball (that never stop touching his left hand) while he took 2 more steps before he passed it.
Yeah... the officials have been very vocal this year in justifying their calls.
It's not that we're claiming they're bad calls as much as claiming the rules are bad.
Maybe that's their plan though... to put more pressure back on the NBA for setting the rules as they have.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:As long as this topic came up, here's something I'm wondering about. Why is it that the slightest shuffle of the feet can draw a traveling call, but taking two steps to get in position for a 3 pointer is allowed just about 100% of the time. Anybody else see this the same way?
Because the gather rule has broken basketball and it's become the catch rule of the NBA. They just overthink it and try to apply the rule to the letter of the law even though they are just blatant travels most of the time. Did you see the recent Beal 5 step no call? The ref twitter doubled down and said it was not a travel because he got his 3 steps with the gather and then "lost" the ball (that never stop touching his left hand) while he took 2 more steps before he passed it.
Yeah... the officials have been very vocal this year in justifying their calls.
It's not that we're claiming they're bad calls as much as claiming the rules are bad.
Maybe that's their plan though... to put more pressure back on the NBA for setting the rules as they have.
To clairiy NBA Twitter account defended it (I could see where they were coming from) and said it wasn't a travel...then the NBA officials said a few hours later that it was a travel after all. I think having the officials communicating with fans about the rules is generally helpful. In that case it wasn't. I think even though there are a lot of fans that generally know the game there are a lot that don't know the way the NBA calls the game or attempts to call the game. That doesn't mean some fans are stupid it's just that there are some actual nuances...and some do seem hard to fathom how they are called from game to game player to player etc etc. Being an official is a hard gig. Players have bad games and I know from my very very low level experience as a ref I have had bad games too. There is a human element. That human element means mistakes are made, bias does happen and integrity can be compromised. I do think the league needs to keep working towards evaluation of their officials and didn't they start paying them more and increasing their long term benefits too?
The pendulum in officiating has swung so far to the favor of the offense, that players are stupid for not pushing off with the ball.
Bring back, or emphasize the rule of verticality.
I'm seeing officials allow the drop shoulder (Harden,LeBron), the off arm clear (Doncic) and the high screen jump into the defense (Curry and many others) at all levels.
Wisconsin beat Illinois the other night on several offensive push offs.
I see it in JV and Varsity.
It's pretty frustrating because it's very difficult to teach appropriate defense based on these rules.
So I finally read the ESPN article... and went down the rabbit hole. As a Steve Nash fanboy... I've always been upset about the 2007 playoffs. I'm even more frustrated now.
Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series. ... Most of the calls favored the Spurs ... Other than the latest call in NBA history (a shooting foul for Manu Ginobili whistled three seconds after the play, when everyone was already running in the other direction), my favorite moment happened near the end, when the game was already over and they called a cheap bump on Bruce Bowen against Nash, so the cameras caught Mike D'Antoni (the most entertaining coach in the league if he's not getting calls) screaming sarcastically, "Why start now? Why bother?" What a travesty. Not since the cocaine era from 1978-1986 has the league faced a bigger ongoing issue than crappy officiating.
This was also a game where Suns star, and Spurs destroyer, Amare Stoudemire, was limited to only 21 minutes because of foul trouble... including an egregious "charging" call seen in the video.
Other damning stuff about the NBA's handling of Tim Donaghy...
- Leaked the investigation to the press, which ruined the FBI's case. They were planning on Donaghy wearing a wire to nab other crooked refs.
- Oddly similar sounding statements from officials following the company line.
- Threats from Stern to the reporter on the case.
- Stern and the NBA got Donaghy's book publisher to dump him prior to his tell-all book.
Shadiness everywhere. And it cost Steve Nash and Co. a title.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:So I finally read the ESPN article... and went down the rabbit hole. As a Steve Nash fanboy... I've always been upset about the 2007 playoffs. I'm even more frustrated now.
Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series. ... Most of the calls favored the Spurs ... Other than the latest call in NBA history (a shooting foul for Manu Ginobili whistled three seconds after the play, when everyone was already running in the other direction), my favorite moment happened near the end, when the game was already over and they called a cheap bump on Bruce Bowen against Nash, so the cameras caught Mike D'Antoni (the most entertaining coach in the league if he's not getting calls) screaming sarcastically, "Why start now? Why bother?" What a travesty. Not since the cocaine era from 1978-1986 has the league faced a bigger ongoing issue than crappy officiating.
This was also a game where Suns star, and Spurs destroyer, Amare Stoudemire, was limited to only 21 minutes because of foul trouble... including an egregious "charging" call seen in the video.
Other damning stuff about the NBA's handling of Tim Donaghy...
- Leaked the investigation to the press, which ruined the FBI's case. They were planning on Donaghy wearing a wire to nab other crooked refs.
- Oddly similar sounding statements from officials following the company line.
- Threats from Stern to the reporter on the case.
- Stern and the NBA got Donaghy's book publisher to dump him prior to his tell-all book.
Shadiness everywhere. And it cost Steve Nash and Co. a title.
