CoolBreeze44 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:Thanks Lip - great job. Regarding Okogie, he had the 2nd worst plus minus on the team tonight. Graham was the only one worse. Wiggins had the best. Plus minus isn't a pure stat, but if it's worth mentioning when it's high, it's also worth talking about when it's low.
Fun game to watch. Looking forward to seeing how we fare against Philly.
The plus-minus was meaningless in this game as applied to Okogie. It's a problematic stat generally when applied to any one player in one game. As one of five players, so much of an individual player's plus-minus is determined by the other four and by the timing of their minutes. It becomes more problematic when applied to a player like Okogie last night who played only 19 minutes. Among other things, Okogie spent most of his time on the floor when KAT was out of the game. And he wasn't on the floor when Teague and Wiggins went from terrible to terrific. Just about everyone at the game last night would attest that Okogie's overall play was critical to the win.
I'm just saying you can't dismiss that stat, especially if you're going to use it when convenient to your narrative. And by your, i don't mean you necessarily. It's just that his plus/minus was used to back up his play in the first two games. And now it doesn't matter? If he had scored 14 consecutive points do you think his +/- would have been higher? But he's not capable of that.
And look, my point here is not to be critical of, or anti Josh. I would agree that he has been a positive factor so far this season and his play is encouraging. But let's also be realistic about his abilities. He has major holes in his game, especially for a wing player. I'm hoping he can sustain some consistency and continue to bring the energy when he comes off the bench.
I rarely if ever cite the plus-minus stat and I never mentioned Okogie's positive plus-minus when praising his play the first two games. In fact, I thought the plus-minus significantly overstated his contribution in those games. So I've always given very little weight to that stat. And I certainly never suggested that Josh doesn't have flaws in his game. My only comment was that his play was critical to last night's win - a fact that can get lost in the glare of Wiggins' heroics the last 5-8 minutes of the game.
I just finished watching the game replay this morning. I'd say that I'm even more impressed by Okogie's contribution last night after watching the replay. He made so many terrific plays, especially but not exclusively on the defensive end, that had a huge positive impact but weren't reflected in the box score. Just a few examples include his defensive play with around 3:51 minutes left in the 3rd quarter when he knocked the ball loose, ultimately forcing Miami into a travel call. Okogie didn't get credit for a steal there, but it was a great consequential defensive play. Then there was Okogie's terrific offensive rebound and alert perfect pass to Towns for corner three with 57 seconds left in the 3rd. Okogie got credit on that for an assist and one of his 6 boards in only 19 minutes, but the main point is that both his rebound and pass on that play were highly consequential and more than the stats would otherwise show. At the beginning of the 4th Okogie rebounded the ball and took it coast to coast for a layup.
Shortly thereafter with about 10:45 left in the 4th he made a terrific defensive play challenging a Tyler Herro layup attempt and forcing a turnover that resulted in a fast break dunk by Layman. Again, a terrific consequential defensive play that led to a score on the other end for the Wolves but no stats for Okogie.
Those were just a few Okogie plays that helped avoid getting buried during Miami's run in the 3rd and early 4th quarters. Okogie had far more of those sorts of plays in the first half to help build a 10+ point lead. Then there were all those plays he made throughout the game where he harassed the ball-handler, sticking to him like glue and forcing bad shots or stopping the shooter from even getting a shot off. There was also the overall affect he had on the team's energy both directly and indirectly by igniting the crowd - more things that are consequential but don't show up in the box score and that don't necessarily get reflected at all in the plus-minus.
Okogie obviously isn't a great player. He's a good rotation player who makes a difference and has the chance to become very good with time, hard work and opportunity. But my only comment in this thread was that Okogie (flaws and all) was characteristically consequential last night and a key to the win. And that contribution went beyond his otherwise pretty impressive stats of 6 rebounds, 2 steals and 8 points on 50% shooting in 19 minutes.
