Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I remembering commenting the Clippers were going with a low upside guy that might be able to help or at least not hurt them if he was any good.

I think this is a good way to look at this. Our bench just needed to stay afloat while our starters rested. However, outside of tyus, the entire bench hurt us. I thinking adding guys like cj and tolliver will keep us in games with defense and toughness sime possible starting us a game here and there when they get hot. All 3 don't need the ball, so itll be much easier to stagger wiggs or butler with the second unit.

If you look purely at the analytics side of things, you could put almost the entire blame on Crawford. On paper, he sabotaged pretty much every lineup he was a part of with his shitty defense and bad shot selection. To fair, he was also the only guy out there that could create offense. Bjelica, Jones, and Dieng all struggle in this regard so we were over-reliant on Crawford to make plays. I'm worried we are going to see the exact same thing play out with Derrick Rose this year.

I'm in the same boat as you, Q. I fear Thibs is going to trust Rose too much and the hero ball -- mindless penetration into crowds and over-dribbling -- will ruin whatever positive impact people thought he brought last year... even though he was still a negative overall, in my opinion.

The way to limit that from happening is for Tyus Jones to take yet another step in his progression and become a more effective scorer. Jones needs to be controlling possessions with that second unit -- not playing off-ball like we saw him do with Crawford. Part of that is on the coach, but the other part of that is on Jones for not being a versatile shot-creator.

If his past is any indication of what's to come, Jones will indeed get better and his impact will be felt even more than it was the previous season. I think he's a real key to what Minnesota's upcoming season ends up being.

Yup, Jones has to take a step forward this year as a scorer. He's not going to blow by people, but he has a strong base and should be able to find ways to draw more fouls, hit that floater of his, and up his 3 pt %. He's got to be more of a threat.

Camden0916 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I remembering commenting the Clippers were going with a low upside guy that might be able to help or at least not hurt them if he was any good.

I think this is a good way to look at this. Our bench just needed to stay afloat while our starters rested. However, outside of tyus, the entire bench hurt us. I thinking adding guys like cj and tolliver will keep us in games with defense and toughness sime possible starting us a game here and there when they get hot. All 3 don't need the ball, so itll be much easier to stagger wiggs or butler with the second unit.

If you look purely at the analytics side of things, you could put almost the entire blame on Crawford. On paper, he sabotaged pretty much every lineup he was a part of with his shitty defense and bad shot selection. To fair, he was also the only guy out there that could create offense. Bjelica, Jones, and Dieng all struggle in this regard so we were over-reliant on Crawford to make plays. I'm worried we are going to see the exact same thing play out with Derrick Rose this year.

I'm in the same boat as you, Q. I fear Thibs is going to trust Rose too much and the hero ball -- mindless penetration into crowds and over-dribbling -- will ruin whatever positive impact people thought he brought last year... even though he was still a negative overall, in my opinion.

The way to limit that from happening is for Tyus Jones to take yet another step in his progression and become a more effective scorer. Jones needs to be controlling possessions with that second unit -- not playing off-ball like we saw him do with Crawford. Part of that is on the coach, but the other part of that is on Jones for not being a versatile shot-creator.

If his past is any indication of what's to come, Jones will indeed get better and his impact will be felt even more than it was the previous season. I think he's a real key to what Minnesota's upcoming season ends up being.

Yep Tyus taking another step forward is a big deal. Like you I feel optimistic about it.

Reading these posts about Rose I think the keys to him being overall effective this season (when healthy) espcially compared to Crawford are;

1. Can he be even just a below average defender instead of a horrific one?

2. Chemistry with teammates. Other than maybe Jimmy I didn't see Crawford really consistently work well with anyone. It was mostly him just jacking up shots. Rose at least looks to get totnhe basket and used to be a PG so he will likely pass more. He showed movement off the ball. Maybe he can work with Dieng and get him some confidence offensively.

Back to CJ the question for me is he more capable of playing the role that was asked of MGH to play last season? I'd guess yes and he did it for the Clippers last year. I think MGH might be more talented and have more upside (maybe a lesser version of Bazemore) but CJ just has always seemed like a guy that knows how to fit in. CJ seems like a Tolliver type and MGH seems like a Belly type guy. The first guys know their roles and the 2nd have more talent but don't know what to do with it and so far don't have the confidence or decisiveness to utilize it fully.

I never saw MGH having that much upside or even all that much talent to begin with. What I felt were his positives were his effort level and willingness to play a particular role, which was to basically not fuck up when he's on the court. That's a fine quality to have, but we need something a bit better.

Camden0916 wrote:I never saw MGH having that much upside or even all that much talent to begin with. What I felt were his positives were his effort level and willingness to play a particular role, which was to basically not fuck up when he's on the court. That's a fine quality to have, but we need something a bit better.

I get where you are coming from Cam. For me watching MGH at lower levels IMO his theoretical talent/upside comes from being able to put the ball on the floor and attack and his finishing ability in the paint might be worthwhile. Q has pointed out he needed to do more last season than as you put it not F up. I think CJ is better at blending in and yet still actually doing something beyond that. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing MGH back because he is young enough I think he could still develop into something more than we saw last season. I also absolutely think it made sense this offseason to look for something better. We need to take a chance on a guy that profiles as a legit shooter even if it's just a catch and shoot type guy.