Minnesota Sports Forum

Imagine us being saddled with that contract too. Thank God we fleeced the bulls for Jimmy.

thedoper wrote:Imagine us being saddled with that contract too. Thank God we fleeced the bulls for Jimmy.

I wouldn't say "fleeced", but I still like the deal. I was never as high on LaVine as many are here (although he seemed like a good guy and also had his moments), and was always concerned about what we would do when it came time for him to be paid. I'm convinced we would not have ponied up $20 million per for Zach, so he would have been gone. Makes the Butler deal look that much better.

I still think LaVine will end up the better player then Wigs. I'll take LaVines work ethic, determination and excellent shot over lazy, junk shot and lackadaisical.

WolvesFan21 wrote:I still think LaVine will end up the better player then Wigs. I'll take LaVines work ethic, determination and excellent shot over lazy, junk shot and lackadaisical.

Yes. I'd rather have LaVine at $19.5 million per year than Wiggins at $30 million per year. In LaVine I know I have a 40% high volume 3-point shooter with the ball-handling skills, athleticism and competitiveness to be more. Wiggins is inferior to LaVine in 3 of those 4 categories (they are equal athletes). In Wiggins I know I have more durability thus far than LaVine as well as more length and proven volume scoring. What Pork wrote makes some sense. But I still think LaVine is a better value. I would have proposed a sign-and-trade, swapping Wiggins for LaVine and a future 2nd round draft pick.

There are lots of Lavine fans here because we saw the best of him. I'll tell you from about a half hour of reading on the interwebs that fans and basketball writers etc aren't a big fan of the guy for this amount of money. The majority think he got overpaid and it was a bad move for either franchise. And yes Wiggins and his contract came up a couple times when fans were discussion the deal. Plenty of these folks can be wrong a ton of people were about Olodipo.

The bottom line is that when these young players are signed you are signing them based on potential. The other reality is both Wiggins and Lavine's stock came down this past offseason. As bad as Wiggins was Lavine's was even worse because he looked bad overall when he played and didn't stay healthy. He has an excuse because of he injury/s but it's also a legit concern.

I'm a Zach Lavine fan but if you start looking at some of his offensive stats more objectively you can find they are less exciting that you may have felt. For example Lip just posted with Lavine you get a 40% 3 point shooter and his career best for a season was 38.9%. :) Lip's point was that Lavine is likely to be a good 3 point shooter I'm not picking on him at all just sometimes we see what we want to see more than we realize myself included. Ultimately only time will tell which guy will be better espcially including contract. Even if Lavine was on our team for this contract I would have both concern anput him long term and happy we got him at that price.

As it's been said what really matters for both franchises is whether these guys become real difference makers. Just average or above average starters isn't going to be enough if you want to be a really good team. Both teams have banked (literally!) on more.

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I still think LaVine will end up the better player then Wigs. I'll take LaVines work ethic, determination and excellent shot over lazy, junk shot and lackadaisical.

Yes. I'd rather have LaVine at $19.5 million per year than Wiggins at $30 million per year. In LaVine I know I have a 40% high volume 3-point shooter with the ball-handling skills, athleticism and competitiveness to be more. Wiggins is inferior to LaVine in 3 of those 4 categories (they are equal athletes). In Wiggins I know I have more durability thus far than LaVine as well as more length and proven volume scoring. What Pork wrote makes some sense. But I still think LaVine is a better value. I would have proposed a sign-and-trade, swapping Wiggins for LaVine and a future 2nd round draft pick.

Of course I agree, but I take it a step further. LaVine should be the one getting paid more. He will be the better player long term. Wigs already took a step back last year in 3P% and FT%. He is clearly not at this time worth a max deal, not even close. It will take a miracle for us to see a high enough rebound in his shooting to see it I think.

He was never a good shooter, but last year he turned into a terrible one (for a starting wing).

We've always elevated Zach on this board, perhaps because he is such a likable, hardworking guy. But he's simply not a very good basketball player, and I for one am happy that we're not the team paying him $20 million per year. There's a reason a terrific athlete with a sweet shooting stroke like Zach couldn't crack the starting lineup in college...he just isn't a very smart basketball player. And I haven't seen many signs of his basketball IQ increasing during his 4 years in the NBA. His defense is atrocious, as is his decision-making on offense. And while we were largely disappointed with Wig's 44% shooting last season, imagine how we would have felt if he had shot 38% like Zach! As Monster said, his deal is getting panned on the internet and I have to agree. I'm not convinced he will ever be a plus NBA player.

longstrangetrip wrote:We've always elevated Zach on this board, perhaps because he is such a likable, hardworking guy. But he's simply not a very good basketball player, and I for one am happy that we're not the team paying him $20 million per year. There's a reason a terrific athlete with a sweet shooting stroke like Zach couldn't crack the starting lineup in college...he just isn't a very smart basketball player. And I haven't seen many signs of his basketball IQ increasing during his 4 years in the NBA. His defense is atrocious, as is his decision-making on offense. And while we were largely disappointed with Wig's 44% shooting last season, imagine how we would have felt if he had shot 38% like Zach! As Monster said, his deal is getting panned on the internet and I have to agree. I'm not convinced he will ever be a plus NBA player.

LaVine's stats last season don't matter to me. It was on a limited sample immediately following his knee surgery. The basketball IQ issue is a real one, but I think he's educable.

Zach's stats were a small sample size with the Bulls trailing big in many games, thus him likely jacking up a lot of 3's. I see him reverting back to the mean while I hope Wigs does as well, not sure either could get any worse then they were last year. (of course Zach's in very few games)

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:We've always elevated Zach on this board, perhaps because he is such a likable, hardworking guy. But he's simply not a very good basketball player, and I for one am happy that we're not the team paying him $20 million per year. There's a reason a terrific athlete with a sweet shooting stroke like Zach couldn't crack the starting lineup in college...he just isn't a very smart basketball player. And I haven't seen many signs of his basketball IQ increasing during his 4 years in the NBA. His defense is atrocious, as is his decision-making on offense. And while we were largely disappointed with Wig's 44% shooting last season, imagine how we would have felt if he had shot 38% like Zach! As Monster said, his deal is getting panned on the internet and I have to agree. I'm not convinced he will ever be a plus NBA player.

LaVine's stats last season don't matter to me. It was on a limited sample immediately following his knee surgery. The basketball IQ issue is a real one, but I think he's educable.

Correct, you have to look at the season before, where he really started to emerge as a legit volume 3-point shooter and overall scorer. I think ultimately he becomes a very dangerous shooter/scorer. His shot is just so natural and easy looking. The question is whether he ever becomes an average defender and play maker. If he does, he could be an all star. If he doesn't, he'll be limited to being more of a bench gunner, ala Crawford, Nick Young, Gerald Green and guys like that.