Wolves fan commiserate here!
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https://forum.midwestvolleyball.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=26856
Q12543 wrote:Yeah, I'm a little bit with Khansy on this one. Randle seems better on paper than in reality.
khans2k5 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Well, the Lakers just renounced Julius Randle. So much for my sign-and-trade idea. I actually think it was a very viable possibility. But as someone mentioned in another thread, Thibodeau is locked in on all his former Bulls so hard to imagine him even thinking about a deal like the one I suggested. I guess we now wait to see if Noah or Deng gets bought out. :). Seriously, Thibodeau's lack of imagination, along with his obsession with his former Bulls players, is a problem for this franchise at a very critical time.
What teams ever trade away their starting PF and significant contributor to a playoff team for a guy who could barely get on the court for his own garbage team? These are the kinds of posts that just aren't fair to Thibs because they are not reasonable and rational decisions an NBA GM would ever make in our situation. Good GM's don't try to raise the team's ceiling at the expense of trading away foundation holding up the floor.
Khans, I love Gibson too and thought he had a terrific season. But are you really saying you would prefer to have 33-year-old Gibson at $14M than 23-y-o Randle at $9M? Randle outscored, outrebounded and out-assisted Gibson last year per game despite playing 7 minutes per game less, and is developing a reputation as a good defender. And you get all that for $5 million less in a body that's 10 years younger. What am I missing here?
There's not a GM in the league trying to make the playoffs who would see how they both played last year and think that's a good deal. One guy contributed greatly to a playoff team and the other couldn't even start on his lottery team. This is a deal that's too much on paper and not in reality. You are falling for a stats on a bad team guy and not factoring fit.
Randle is not a good defender and he's a double double guy. That's the same as Towns except Towns is 100x better at that. Gibson is a glue guy who's our best PnR defender. You're trading in what little defense we have in the frountcourt on the whole team for more points and rebounds on a team full of guys who get points and rebounds. Is Randle a good double-double guy as the 5th option on the floor? That math doesn't add up. On paper sure it looks great. Save money and get double-doubles. In reality there's one ball and he needs it to score and we have 4 better scorers on the court with him so what does he give you?
Camden wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:Trade Jeff Teague for a bit of cap relief and a bench 3 and D player. A combination of Jones and Rose is adequate to man the point for a season.
Absolutely not. Not only do I think Tyus Jones isn't quite ready to be a starter night in and night out, but I don't want Rose making many decisions with the ball.
lipoli390 wrote:khans2k5 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Well, the Lakers just renounced Julius Randle. So much for my sign-and-trade idea. I actually think it was a very viable possibility. But as someone mentioned in another thread, Thibodeau is locked in on all his former Bulls so hard to imagine him even thinking about a deal like the one I suggested. I guess we now wait to see if Noah or Deng gets bought out. :). Seriously, Thibodeau's lack of imagination, along with his obsession with his former Bulls players, is a problem for this franchise at a very critical time.
What teams ever trade away their starting PF and significant contributor to a playoff team for a guy who could barely get on the court for his own garbage team? These are the kinds of posts that just aren't fair to Thibs because they are not reasonable and rational decisions an NBA GM would ever make in our situation. Good GM's don't try to raise the team's ceiling at the expense of trading away foundation holding up the floor.
Khans, I love Gibson too and thought he had a terrific season. But are you really saying you would prefer to have 33-year-old Gibson at $14M than 23-y-o Randle at $9M? Randle outscored, outrebounded and out-assisted Gibson last year per game despite playing 7 minutes per game less, and is developing a reputation as a good defender. And you get all that for $5 million less in a body that's 10 years younger. What am I missing here?
There's not a GM in the league trying to make the playoffs who would see how they both played last year and think that's a good deal. One guy contributed greatly to a playoff team and the other couldn't even start on his lottery team. This is a deal that's too much on paper and not in reality. You are falling for a stats on a bad team guy and not factoring fit.
Randle is not a good defender and he's a double double guy. That's the same as Towns except Towns is 100x better at that. Gibson is a glue guy who's our best PnR defender. You're trading in what little defense we have in the frountcourt on the whole team for more points and rebounds on a team full of guys who get points and rebounds. Is Randle a good double-double guy as the 5th option on the floor? That math doesn't add up. On paper sure it looks great. Save money and get double-doubles. In reality there's one ball and he needs it to score and we have 4 better scorers on the court with him so what does he give you?
Kahns - I just disagree with you. Actually a lot of GMs looking at their relative stats would think that's a good deal even if the objective is simply to "make the playoffs." Just about every GM would see it as a good deal if the objective is to become more than just a team trying to edge into the playoffs. The comparative stats from last season tell the tale and that's before you get the the age difference, price difference and the fact that Taj had career year last seasons that's unlikely to be repeated.
WildWolf2813 wrote:If this team signs Corey Brewer for a third time, I might need a vacation. I know a lot of you guys love him, but for me he embodied why we sucked for so long and valuing all the things he brings that don't correlate to winning.
kekgeek1 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:khans2k5 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Well, the Lakers just renounced Julius Randle. So much for my sign-and-trade idea. I actually think it was a very viable possibility. But as someone mentioned in another thread, Thibodeau is locked in on all his former Bulls so hard to imagine him even thinking about a deal like the one I suggested. I guess we now wait to see if Noah or Deng gets bought out. :). Seriously, Thibodeau's lack of imagination, along with his obsession with his former Bulls players, is a problem for this franchise at a very critical time.
What teams ever trade away their starting PF and significant contributor to a playoff team for a guy who could barely get on the court for his own garbage team? These are the kinds of posts that just aren't fair to Thibs because they are not reasonable and rational decisions an NBA GM would ever make in our situation. Good GM's don't try to raise the team's ceiling at the expense of trading away foundation holding up the floor.
Khans, I love Gibson too and thought he had a terrific season. But are you really saying you would prefer to have 33-year-old Gibson at $14M than 23-y-o Randle at $9M? Randle outscored, outrebounded and out-assisted Gibson last year per game despite playing 7 minutes per game less, and is developing a reputation as a good defender. And you get all that for $5 million less in a body that's 10 years younger. What am I missing here?
There's not a GM in the league trying to make the playoffs who would see how they both played last year and think that's a good deal. One guy contributed greatly to a playoff team and the other couldn't even start on his lottery team. This is a deal that's too much on paper and not in reality. You are falling for a stats on a bad team guy and not factoring fit.
Randle is not a good defender and he's a double double guy. That's the same as Towns except Towns is 100x better at that. Gibson is a glue guy who's our best PnR defender. You're trading in what little defense we have in the frountcourt on the whole team for more points and rebounds on a team full of guys who get points and rebounds. Is Randle a good double-double guy as the 5th option on the floor? That math doesn't add up. On paper sure it looks great. Save money and get double-doubles. In reality there's one ball and he needs it to score and we have 4 better scorers on the court with him so what does he give you?
Kahns - I just disagree with you. Actually a lot of GMs looking at their relative stats would think that's a good deal even if the objective is simply to "make the playoffs." Just about every GM would see it as a good deal if the objective is to become more than just a team trying to edge into the playoffs. The comparative stats from last season tell the tale and that's before you get the the age difference, price difference and the fact that Taj had career year last seasons that's unlikely to be repeated.
You know I have been the head of the trade Taj bandwagon and I do believe the Taj has more value then Randle and I love randle but I don't think the Lakers would have done this deal. Taj just doesn't fit with LBJ. He doesn't spread the floor for LBJ, he is a good defender but he was almost unplayable against the Rockets because of the pace and space. Also he is not a small ball 5. I just don't think the fit of Taj is a good one with LBJ even though I think Taj is better at this time in his career then Randle (I would of done this deal in a second if I was Thibs).
lipoli390 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:khans2k5 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Well, the Lakers just renounced Julius Randle. So much for my sign-and-trade idea. I actually think it was a very viable possibility. But as someone mentioned in another thread, Thibodeau is locked in on all his former Bulls so hard to imagine him even thinking about a deal like the one I suggested. I guess we now wait to see if Noah or Deng gets bought out. :). Seriously, Thibodeau's lack of imagination, along with his obsession with his former Bulls players, is a problem for this franchise at a very critical time.
What teams ever trade away their starting PF and significant contributor to a playoff team for a guy who could barely get on the court for his own garbage team? These are the kinds of posts that just aren't fair to Thibs because they are not reasonable and rational decisions an NBA GM would ever make in our situation. Good GM's don't try to raise the team's ceiling at the expense of trading away foundation holding up the floor.
Khans, I love Gibson too and thought he had a terrific season. But are you really saying you would prefer to have 33-year-old Gibson at $14M than 23-y-o Randle at $9M? Randle outscored, outrebounded and out-assisted Gibson last year per game despite playing 7 minutes per game less, and is developing a reputation as a good defender. And you get all that for $5 million less in a body that's 10 years younger. What am I missing here?
There's not a GM in the league trying to make the playoffs who would see how they both played last year and think that's a good deal. One guy contributed greatly to a playoff team and the other couldn't even start on his lottery team. This is a deal that's too much on paper and not in reality. You are falling for a stats on a bad team guy and not factoring fit.
Randle is not a good defender and he's a double double guy. That's the same as Towns except Towns is 100x better at that. Gibson is a glue guy who's our best PnR defender. You're trading in what little defense we have in the frountcourt on the whole team for more points and rebounds on a team full of guys who get points and rebounds. Is Randle a good double-double guy as the 5th option on the floor? That math doesn't add up. On paper sure it looks great. Save money and get double-doubles. In reality there's one ball and he needs it to score and we have 4 better scorers on the court with him so what does he give you?
Kahns - I just disagree with you. Actually a lot of GMs looking at their relative stats would think that's a good deal even if the objective is simply to "make the playoffs." Just about every GM would see it as a good deal if the objective is to become more than just a team trying to edge into the playoffs. The comparative stats from last season tell the tale and that's before you get the the age difference, price difference and the fact that Taj had career year last seasons that's unlikely to be repeated.
You know I have been the head of the trade Taj bandwagon and I do believe the Taj has more value then Randle and I love randle but I don't think the Lakers would have done this deal. Taj just doesn't fit with LBJ. He doesn't spread the floor for LBJ, he is a good defender but he was almost unplayable against the Rockets because of the pace and space. Also he is not a small ball 5. I just don't think the fit of Taj is a good one with LBJ even though I think Taj is better at this time in his career then Randle (I would of done this deal in a second if I was Thibs).
You got to the real issue, Geek. Would the Lakers have done that deal? You make some good points, but I'm not convinced. Rondo isn't exactly a floor stretcher, but the Lakers signed him for $9 million. And the Lakers already have an excellent floor-stretcher at PF in Kuzma. I think LeBron would have loved to have another veteran professional with playoff experience on the team for this upcoming season. And Gibson's expiring contract would have fit the organization's desire to clear max space to sign elite free agents next summer. It's a close call, but I could easily see the Lakers doing that deal. Unfortunately, I can't see Thibs trading any of his beloved ex-Bulls. Heck, he's probably waiting an praying for Noah or Deng to be released. :)
crazy-canuck wrote:WildWolf2813 wrote:If this team signs Corey Brewer for a third time, I might need a vacation. I know a lot of you guys love him, but for me he embodied why we sucked for so long and valuing all the things he brings that don't correlate to winning.
Id love corey for the vet minimum. He plays fast and hustled his arse off. Hes also a good lockerroom guy and would be a good influence on the young wings (imo, more than butler is).
monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:khans2k5 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Well, the Lakers just renounced Julius Randle. So much for my sign-and-trade idea. I actually think it was a very viable possibility. But as someone mentioned in another thread, Thibodeau is locked in on all his former Bulls so hard to imagine him even thinking about a deal like the one I suggested. I guess we now wait to see if Noah or Deng gets bought out. :). Seriously, Thibodeau's lack of imagination, along with his obsession with his former Bulls players, is a problem for this franchise at a very critical time.
What teams ever trade away their starting PF and significant contributor to a playoff team for a guy who could barely get on the court for his own garbage team? These are the kinds of posts that just aren't fair to Thibs because they are not reasonable and rational decisions an NBA GM would ever make in our situation. Good GM's don't try to raise the team's ceiling at the expense of trading away foundation holding up the floor.
Khans, I love Gibson too and thought he had a terrific season. But are you really saying you would prefer to have 33-year-old Gibson at $14M than 23-y-o Randle at $9M? Randle outscored, outrebounded and out-assisted Gibson last year per game despite playing 7 minutes per game less, and is developing a reputation as a good defender. And you get all that for $5 million less in a body that's 10 years younger. What am I missing here?
There's not a GM in the league trying to make the playoffs who would see how they both played last year and think that's a good deal. One guy contributed greatly to a playoff team and the other couldn't even start on his lottery team. This is a deal that's too much on paper and not in reality. You are falling for a stats on a bad team guy and not factoring fit.
Randle is not a good defender and he's a double double guy. That's the same as Towns except Towns is 100x better at that. Gibson is a glue guy who's our best PnR defender. You're trading in what little defense we have in the frountcourt on the whole team for more points and rebounds on a team full of guys who get points and rebounds. Is Randle a good double-double guy as the 5th option on the floor? That math doesn't add up. On paper sure it looks great. Save money and get double-doubles. In reality there's one ball and he needs it to score and we have 4 better scorers on the court with him so what does he give you?
Kahns - I just disagree with you. Actually a lot of GMs looking at their relative stats would think that's a good deal even if the objective is simply to "make the playoffs." Just about every GM would see it as a good deal if the objective is to become more than just a team trying to edge into the playoffs. The comparative stats from last season tell the tale and that's before you get the the age difference, price difference and the fact that Taj had career year last seasons that's unlikely to be repeated.
You know I have been the head of the trade Taj bandwagon and I do believe the Taj has more value then Randle and I love randle but I don't think the Lakers would have done this deal. Taj just doesn't fit with LBJ. He doesn't spread the floor for LBJ, he is a good defender but he was almost unplayable against the Rockets because of the pace and space. Also he is not a small ball 5. I just don't think the fit of Taj is a good one with LBJ even though I think Taj is better at this time in his career then Randle (I would of done this deal in a second if I was Thibs).
You got to the real issue, Geek. Would the Lakers have done that deal? You make some good points, but I'm not convinced. Rondo isn't exactly a floor stretcher, but the Lakers signed him for $9 million. And the Lakers already have an excellent floor-stretcher at PF in Kuzma. I think LeBron would have loved to have another veteran professional with playoff experience on the team for this upcoming season. And Gibson's expiring contract would have fit the organization's desire to clear max space to sign elite free agents next summer. It's a close call, but I could easily see the Lakers doing that deal. Unfortunately, I can't see Thibs trading any of his beloved ex-Bulls. Heck, he's probably waiting an praying for Noah or Deng to be released. :)
If the Lakers let Randle walk and signed Rondo for 9 million so we have our answer. They would not have traded for Taj. The end.