monsterpile wrote:Teague is flat out playing like Rubio froma few years ago. 8 assists 5 rebounds in 24 mins. He gets the Luke Ridnour award for this season I'm calling it right now. The guy never gets the benefit of the doubt. It reminds me of how people trashed JJ Barea.
Teague's stats way overstate his contribution. That's different from Ricky, whose stats often understated his contribution. Ricky ran the offensive beautifully, made his teammates better and made the team greater than the sum of its parts when he was on the court. Teague is the antithesis of Ricky. That's not to say Teague is a bad player. He's actually a good player. But he's a poor fit for this team and isn't particularly good at running an offense as a team's starting PG. I love JJ Barea and though he was unfairly bashed by some. I also like Luke Ridnour and I recall him being highly regarded by most fans. Teague is criticized for good and obvious reasons - overdribbling and passing up wide open threes, coupled with defense that comes and goes. He's amazing in that he passes up both open teammates and open shots, which is pretty rare since usually a player will have a tendency to do one or the other, not both. Those of us who watch him live a lot see all the missed passing opportunities you often don't see on TV.
There are differing opinions among people who regularly sit in my section when it comes to Tyus, Saric, Tolliver. But the there's a consensus negative view of Teague as our PG. The more you see him and the more you see him live, the more obvious his overall negative impact is. I like Teague the person and actually like some things he can do as a player. Maybe a totally different offensive system would work for him. But I've seen enough to be convinced that he's a net negative as our PG and certainly not worth $19 million.
Lip this is a well thought out post but I think you missed the point. Watch Teague. The guy is dribbling around looking to get guys off. It's been this way for a while. It's the same way Rubio used to play and not take shots when he was wide open. Part of why people are so upset with Teague is the dribbling around BUT right now he is playing the same style as beloved Ricky. I'm not arguing he is as good as Rubio in this role I'm saying that's what he is doing. You said Teague is a good player but a bad fit for this team. Who's fault is that? Teague? Sure it's partly him. You have often blame Thibs for Teague coming here and how you don't like the offense that was run. He isn't here anymore. Teague isn't so terrible that a good coach can't get something out of him. Why is Teague playing this role? You said maybe a different offensive system would work for him...hey guess what we have a new coach. :) it's up to Ryan Saunders and this nifty collaborative bunch on the coaching staff to get the most out of a good player in Teague even its for 30 or so games.
I think you will agree Teague is not a selfish player. The guy wants to play the right way and is a good teammate. He has been vocal about playing the right way (and a different way) on both ends of the court. Maybe Ryan will listen and help Teague be the player and team Teague seemingly has been wanting for months. Give the guy a bit of a break. Just to be clear I'm not suggesting Teague always backs up the things he says...but lots of people don't. Again I think it's a guy that wants to do better. Coach Bud got a lot out of this guy. Maybe it doesn't work out and he just needs to go somewhere else to flourish...but my guess is if he was playing the right role he here would be very worthwhile and fans would enjoy the guy. He is just another guard being asked to do more than he should be. It's up to this coaching staff to put him in the right position. It may take a bit for that to happen especially if he keeps having problems staying healthy. Just like Ridnour was ripped on on the ESPN boards because he was having to play as a starting PG and or SG or JJ Barea and the man either as a starter or leading the bench unit they were being asked to do too much and were ripped for it. It wasn't so much their fault. Some of it wasn't even the coaches fault there wasn't many other options because of the roster and or injuries. Teague can help this team if we actually play a different way.
Ok that's enough I've written WAY too much about Teague.
Yes, Monster - You have written WAY too much about Teague. :) The only thing I'll add is that Ricky's dribbling was with a purpose and opened up opportunities for teammates. Teague's dribbling is often indecisive and does little to create opportunities for teammate. The fact that they both dribble a lot doesn't mean they played the same style. It's night and day. Then there's Q's point about Teague being a pretty good percentage 3-point shooter but not taking threes at the rate he should or even the rate he used to. A different coach might make a difference, but I have my doubts. And yes, Thibodeau the PBO made a mistake signing Teague to that huge contract. I thoughts so at the time and I'm even more convinced now than before.
But that's enough about Teague. This team needs an elite player to pair with Towns. Teague was never expected to be an elite player. Wiggins was expected to be the other star on this team but he's nothing more than a serviceable rotation player with a max contract. That's the problem. But I don't blame Wiggins for being Wiggins any more than I blame Teague for being Teague. I blame Wolves management for making poor decisions that have left us with Wiggins and Teague at a combined annual compensation of $45 million and no allstar caliber player to pair with KAT. If the Wolves ever want to be more than a likely lottery team scrapping for a chance to grab the 8th seed, it's clear that neither Teague nor Wiggins are part of the answer. In fact, part of the answer is clearing their salaries off the books and looking for the answer in the draft and free agency.
There was a decent quote by Steve kerr the other day about the role of coaches.
It was something like accentuate the strength of the players while minimizing their deficiencies.
For some reason, weve had a tough time with this. I still don't think we have bad players, but it just seems that nobody, coaches, players, gm, or ownership, are on the same page.
Q12543 wrote:Teague is a career 36% shooter from beyond the arc, which is an eFG% of 54%, yet he's taking fewer 3's per game than the last 5 or 6 seasons. He's going the wrong direction! If he would just pull the trigger more often he'd be a more efficient scorer and it would be better for our overall offense.
I'm honestly not sure how much Saunders can even influence this at this stage in the season with a vet like Teague.
Teague has taken less three pointers than before just because he has taken less shots in general. Believe or not his three point attempts ratio of all shots has been career high level during his time in Minnesota. It is still pretty low (around 28%) tough.
Q12543 wrote:Teague is a career 36% shooter from beyond the arc, which is an eFG% of 54%, yet he's taking fewer 3's per game than the last 5 or 6 seasons. He's going the wrong direction! If he would just pull the trigger more often he'd be a more efficient scorer and it would be better for our overall offense.
I'm honestly not sure how much Saunders can even influence this at this stage in the season with a vet like Teague.
Teague has taken less three pointers than before just because he has taken less shots in general. Believe or not his three point attempts ratio of all shots has been career high level during his time in Minnesota. It is still pretty low (around 28%) tough.
Fair enough....perhaps he just needs to shoot more in general. Obviously KAT should always be the priority, but I'd rather see him getting up shots than Wiggins or Okogie. But his ratio of 3's, even on a reduced number of shots, needs to go up for someone with a decent outside shot. Half the battle with 3-point shooting is simply getting a bunch of them up.
Teague is maddening to watch. We all see the hesitation... and refusal to shoot wide open three pointers... only to see the team stuck in a hot potato situation 12 seconds later... but Teague isn't an atrocity out there. He's pretty passive and not great to watch this season.
But I'm not quite sure it's been polarizing enough to turn him into the next pariah of the board... ala JJ Barea or Thad Young.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Teague is maddening to watch. We all see the hesitation... and refusal to shoot wide open three pointers... only to see the team stuck in a hot potato situation 12 seconds later... but Teague isn't an atrocity out there. He's pretty passive and not great to watch this season.
But I'm not quite sure it's been polarizing enough to turn him into the next pariah of the board... ala JJ Barea or Thad Young.
And those guys went on to be pretty useful players on other teams. I liked both JJ and Thad (and Ridnour) more than I like Teague. I get frustrated with Teague plenty and you laid it out and so have others including Lip.
Meanwhile I guess Teague must be the most lucky PG in the league dribbling supposedly aimlessly only to have 8.1 assists (in just over 30mpg) which would be in a 3 way tie for 4th in the league if he played enough games. His assists per 36 would be a career high by over an assist. He is the starting PG that's battled injuries went through the Butler disaster then a major trade and now his 2nd coach (Thibs was supposedly horrendous for the offense). Again he never gets the benefit of the doubt from some. Oh well I need to just let it go.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Teague is maddening to watch. We all see the hesitation... and refusal to shoot wide open three pointers... only to see the team stuck in a hot potato situation 12 seconds later... but Teague isn't an atrocity out there. He's pretty passive and not great to watch this season.
But I'm not quite sure it's been polarizing enough to turn him into the next pariah of the board... ala JJ Barea or Thad Young.
And those guys went on to be pretty useful players on other teams. I liked both JJ and Thad (and Ridnour) more than I like Teague. I get frustrated with Teague plenty and you laid it out and so have others including Lip.
Meanwhile I guess Teague must be the most lucky PG in the league dribbling supposedly aimlessly only to have 8.1 assists (in just over 30mpg) which would be in a 3 way tie for 4th in the league if he played enough games. His assists per 36 would be a career high by over an assist. He is the starting PG that's battled injuries went through the Butler disaster then a major trade and now his 2nd coach (Thibs was supposedly horrendous for the offense). Again he never gets the benefit of the doubt from some. Oh well I need to just let it go.
I hear ya. I think it's just so obvious when he's not playing his best... that he becomes more of a lightning rod?
In any event... this will be his first season that he doesn't make the playoffs. And he was a playoff starter for every season sans his rookie season.
Since this has migrated into a Jeff Teague thread, I'll weigh in. While I share some of the same frustrations as most of you (pace of play, passing on threes, defense), I tend to agree more with Monster on this one. Teague ranks 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio (Tyus of course is first), one of the most important stats I believe for a PG, and trails only Harden, Westbrook and Lowry in assists per game. And he's not just a facilitator, adding 11.5 PPG. I wish he wasn't so reluctant to pull the trigger on the wide open three because he makes them at a good rate, and I feel like he is not as good a defender as I thought when we brought him in, but overall I think he is producing well. I also find him one of the toughest players on a team that generally lacks toughness. Yes he may be paid a little too much at $19 million, but you could also argue that his PG stats are worthy of that contract.
All that said, I feel quite comfortable with Jones and Rose as our two PGs, so if Teague could command a decent return at the deadline (and I think he just might) I would not be opposed to dealing him.
