Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

There are some on this Board who have pointed out that the Wolves have had some games this season where they took a lot of threes. But the overall numbers tell the tale. The Wolves have gone from last in 3-point attempts a year ago to 27th this season. And that's in spite of several games in which the Wolves took a lot of threes. So it's clear that the 3-point shot has not been a priority under Thibodeau. If it were, the Wolves wouldn't have been consistently near the bottom in 3-point attempts. As the article points out, the Wolves have also been near the top in long two-point attempts. It's been a double whammy. You could see it on the court with Wolves players repeatedly hesitating on 3-point attempts with pump fakes and then stepping in only to launch a long two.

The Wolves are 23rd right now in three point attempts at 28.7 per game... That means they were shooting 28.5 per game for Thibs.

With Cleveland currently 27th in three point attempts at only 26.0... and NOP at 24th at only 28.1 per game... how could the Wolves have been 27th in the league?
___________

Regardless...the point is valid. YES... the three pointer has not been a big enough part of the Wolves offense. And as noted, even more importantly, the long INEFFICIENT two pointer has been too much of the offense... for many, many years under both the Saunders/Mitchell and Thibodeau regimes.

3fga ranking by year:

30th (2018)
30th (Thibs)
29th (Mitchell)
30th (Saunders)
16th (Adelman)
21st (2013, Adelman)

I cringe to know where this squad stands with the number of long two pointers it takes. Where do we find that?

Abe, Prepare to cringe:

Ranking in % of team's shots from 16 feet out to just below the 3 point line AND fg% from that range (from B-ball reference):

18-19: 7th-29th (Thibs, now Saunders)
17-18: 4th-14th (Thibs)
16-17: 5th-13th (Thibs)
15-16: 1st-13th (Mitchell)
14-15: 3rd - 26th (Flip)

https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=Mid-Range%20FGA&dir=1&DistanceRange=By%20Zone&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*MIN

Wiggs is an eye sore. As bad as he is at midrange his left corner 3 ball is crazy good and on decent volume. I'd love for saunders to implement some action for more corner 3's.

Our last three coaches have literally been sabotaging the offense by being so reliant on a the "long 2" offense. And as the article stated, we're not even that good at making the shot!

Now how many of us bozos have been talking about this for YEARS!? It isn't rocket science!

By the way, San Antonio and Golden State are among the league leaders in % of FGAs from the long 2 range this year. HOWEVER, they are also among the league leaders in FG% from that range. It's one thing for Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, and DeMar DeRozan to pull up for an 18-footer. It's another for Andrew Wiggins to do it!

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Well it's about damn time we had a coach that understood that three is greater than two! It's really not hard to change a team and player's shot selection. Milwaukee went from 25th in 3PTAs last season to 2nd this season, mostly with the same roster, but with a new coach. It basically took one training camp to make this huge leap.

What is innovative is the way Ryan is trying to go about changing habits. That is a very good sign of some fresh thinking in this organization......finally!!!

Q you did not mention Brook Lopez at C. Adding him was a pretty big factor in the 3 point uptick.

Good point, but they upped their 3pta by 14 attempts! He certainly is a part of that, but it's mostly coaching, as most players on the roster are at career highs in 3pta, including Lopez himself.

I'm not a fan of forcing up a bunch of contested 3's or passing up wide open 2's for contested 3's (this is what Houston often does) because I think that can be exploited in a long playoff series. But what we can't be doing is taking two dribbles in and then pulling up for a contested 2 (one of Wiggins' favorite shots). That shot needs to be completely extinguished unless we're in a shot clock situation.

I'm a big 3-point advocate, but I agree there is a difference between a good 3-point attempt and a bad one. Josh Okogie is making less than 26% of his threes (an adjusted percentage of less than 40%) and most of them are wide open (because smart defenses are giving the 3 to him). And yet in the NO game he not only took 8 threes (making 1 of them), but he also diverted from a 2 on 1 fast break to take a corner three! It reminded me of the old Loyola Marymount teams that would eschew an uncontested fast break layup and instead pull up for a 3...but at least they made a good percentage of them.
I want Ryan to get this team to understand they need to take their best percentage shot in every possession. For guys like Covington, Teague and Saric, that means not hesitating when they are open beyond the arc. But for a guy like Okogie, a better option might be to drive to the basket or get the ball to KAT.

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

There are some on this Board who have pointed out that the Wolves have had some games this season where they took a lot of threes. But the overall numbers tell the tale. The Wolves have gone from last in 3-point attempts a year ago to 27th this season. And that's in spite of several games in which the Wolves took a lot of threes. So it's clear that the 3-point shot has not been a priority under Thibodeau. If it were, the Wolves wouldn't have been consistently near the bottom in 3-point attempts. As the article points out, the Wolves have also been near the top in long two-point attempts. It's been a double whammy. You could see it on the court with Wolves players repeatedly hesitating on 3-point attempts with pump fakes and then stepping in only to launch a long two.

The Wolves are 23rd right now in three point attempts at 28.7 per game... That means they were shooting 28.5 per game for Thibs.

With Cleveland currently 27th in three point attempts at only 26.0... and NOP at 24th at only 28.1 per game... how could the Wolves have been 27th in the league?
___________

Regardless...the point is valid. YES... the three pointer has not been a big enough part of the Wolves offense. And as noted, even more importantly, the long INEFFICIENT two pointer has been too much of the offense... for many, many years under both the Saunders/Mitchell and Thibodeau regimes.

3fga ranking by year:

30th (2018)
30th (Thibs)
29th (Mitchell)
30th (Saunders)
16th (Adelman)
21st (2013, Adelman)

I cringe to know where this squad stands with the number of long two pointers it takes. Where do we find that?

Abe, Prepare to cringe:

Ranking in % of team's shots from 16 feet out to just below the 3 point line AND fg% from that range (from B-ball reference):

18-19: 7th-29th (Thibs, now Saunders)
17-18: 4th-14th (Thibs)
16-17: 5th-13th (Thibs)
15-16: 1st-13th (Mitchell)
14-15: 3rd - 26th (Flip)

Ugh. Maybe Ryan should demand 25 pushups in practice for taking a long 2 rather than subtracting one point. We have a long ways to go.

crazy-canuck wrote:https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=Mid-Range%20FGA&dir=1&DistanceRange=By%20Zone&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*MIN

Wiggs is an eye sore. As bad as he is at midrange his left corner 3 ball is crazy good and on decent volume. I'd love for saunders to implement some action for more corner 3's.

And if you look at Wiggins' career % from the corners, it's 40%, and that's multiple years now so definitely a valid sample size. Yet only 15% of his 3pt attempts are from the corners for his career. That is another example of coaching malpractice. Unbelievable.

The one thing I will say in defense of our prior coaches is that it takes a pretty strong pick and roll game to open up the corner 3, as it usually results in a defender having to sag into the paint to cover a rolling big or penetrating guard. Still, there are other ways to generate that shot.

crazy-canuck wrote:https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=Mid-Range%20FGA&dir=1&DistanceRange=By%20Zone&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*MIN

Wiggs is an eye sore. As bad as he is at midrange his left corner 3 ball is crazy good and on decent volume. I'd love for saunders to implement some action for more corner 3's.

Note that Towns and Tolliver are shooting better above the break than the corners.

According to basketball reference Wiggins is taking a career low in percentage of long 2's so if Ryan can move him even farther in the right direction that would be exciting. He is also up to shooting more shots at the rim than he did last year thank goodness. We need him attacking. He is averaging over 7fta in January and was getting to the line about 5.5 times in December. What was he doing before?!?! In October and November he played 18 games and took only 42 FTs. In December he took 82 FTs in 15 games!

Q12543 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=Mid-Range%20FGA&dir=1&DistanceRange=By%20Zone&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*MIN

Wiggs is an eye sore. As bad as he is at midrange his left corner 3 ball is crazy good and on decent volume. I'd love for saunders to implement some action for more corner 3's.

And if you look at Wiggins' career % from the corners, it's 40%, and that's multiple years now so definitely a valid sample size. Yet only 15% of his 3pt attempts are from the corners for his career. That is another example of coaching malpractice. Unbelievable.

The one thing I will say in defense of our prior coaches is that it takes a pretty strong pick and roll game to open up the corner 3, as it usually results in a defender having to sag into the paint to cover a rolling big or penetrating guard. Still, there are other ways to generate that shot.

Good points Q. I'd be curious what the corner 3 attempts looked like under adelman.

Q12543 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=Mid-Range%20FGA&dir=1&DistanceRange=By%20Zone&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*MIN

Wiggs is an eye sore. As bad as he is at midrange his left corner 3 ball is crazy good and on decent volume. I'd love for saunders to implement some action for more corner 3's.

And if you look at Wiggins' career % from the corners, it's 40%, and that's multiple years now so definitely a valid sample size. Yet only 15% of his 3pt attempts are from the corners for his career. That is another example of coaching malpractice. Unbelievable.

The one thing I will say in defense of our prior coaches is that it takes a pretty strong pick and roll game to open up the corner 3, as it usually results in a defender having to sag into the paint to cover a rolling big or penetrating guard. Still, there are other ways to generate that shot.

The thing is none of our pgs can really drive and kick for the 3 pter. I'd even say rose and teague are really poor at setting up or even looking for a 3pt shooter. Tyus is decent, but that's more of the swing variety.

If wiggs could just attack the paint more frequently, hes the guy that can kick out for the 3 ball because defenses gravitate to him and he stays so long in the air that he can make the pass. However, he might not even make it to the rim without being stripped.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I saw that Monster. I dug it. Good moment.

And it's not like it hasn't been done before. Garnett was extremely loyal... even as one of the lasting aspects of his legacy was him NOT getting out earlier. In any event, KAT is locked in for the next few years... no use worrying too much about it yet.

Another angle to that moment was...the fans had something legit to cheer for. It was a pretty good performance by Towns and he did it going up against AD. I think if there is something pretty legit to cheer for MN basketball fans are gonna embrace it. Hopefully we might actually be moving toward that.