Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

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Wolvesfan21
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by Wolvesfan21 »

worldK wrote:I voted no.The 10-8 and 7th seed start was great for the development of the team. Towns and wiggins gaining respect around the league and proving they can lead a winning team was important. Now were back as the joke of the league that gets no respect.

Now, I understand that teams started to realize that we have no shooters. They started packing the lane to adjust to wiggins rim attacks and both wig and towns got hurt and miss time. But I did hope that rosas would have made some moves that got us the pieces needed to be competitive. I also wish they would be more flexible with the 1 big lineup by playing big half the game. Instead, rosas made it clear that winning is not the priority this season. Implementing the system is the top priority but more than 2/3 of the guys we play most likely has no future with the team. So what the hell? The lottery was adjusted so that it decreases the chances of landing the top picks by tanking teams and we are tanking anyways in a weak draft.

The best lineup we can put out there now if we are care to win games and still play the system is

Roco/dieng/towns/wig/culver.
Roco is at his best as the hounding and roving wing defender. Culver can guard the more threatening sg or pg while wig takes the less threatening one. Towns and dieng guard who they are more suited depending on matchups.

Commit to point wig now as it gets him to be the most productive but have culver bring the ball down and be the playmaker in some sets. This develops both of them at the same and with our 3 best 3pt shooters (towns, roco,dieng) spreading the floor for both to attack the rim, it opens up the offense more for both wig and culver.


I think it is obvious that lineup you listed would be the best if you want to win. But they (Rosas/management) don't want to win now.

You would have a good mix of defense and offense with that lineup. Nice size all around, Napier has been pretty garbage 90% of the time so he's not on the floor, meanwhile Dieng has been solid too.

The problem is you do that and you are going against the system.

I've been trying to figure out the downsides of Dieng over Napier, obviously one less ball handler and guy who can penetrate and dish. That's really it. Dieng is obviously completely inept at it (traveling) but Napier isn't all that good either. Culver and Wiggins are just as effective, if not more.

I think a lot of it too is setting the bar low for the next upcoming seasons. See we won 23 games last season now we won 10/20 more games. Look at the progress we are making!
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Everybody here should know my take on this issue by now...
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kekgeek
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by kekgeek »

I think the problem with this tank is, we arent even trying things. I can take losing even though I hate it if the wolves were experimenting with things.

I would like to know if the wolves could be successful playing two shooting bigs together in Kat and Gorgui. I would love to know what PG Culver would look like. I would love to see how Kat plays next to a good defensive big, I know Vonleh isn't a shot blocker but if Kat and Vonleh would play together well maybe we could find a better Vonleh and show a semi blueprint to be successful with Kat. Nowell and Naz are not even playing but they are playing the 2-way guys over them. Can Naz play with Kat going forward or is Naz just a third string C for the rest of the year and next year playing behind Gorgui where he will get 0 minutes without injury. How does Nowell fit into all of this, in theory he looks like our one young scoring guard but he dosen't play at all.


The thing that is Wolves are getting their ass kicked in this system. They are not just losing here and there they have had 2 10+ losing streaks. Kat has lost 15 straight games. Right now all I am seeing is this system is a proven loser with Kat in charge. Now that for sure can change but losing 15 straight with Kat playing, shows me things about Kat and the system where it is perfectly valid to think it is a losing strategy going forward.

We also have Kat going on a rant saying he feels disrespected by the NBA, that he doesn't expect good things to come from the NBA and when they do it is a total shock for him. Also said that it sucks that the best 24 players are not playing the All Star game. Kat is sounding like a massive baby and thinks he should be rewarded for losing.

We are in year 5 and 6 with Wiggins and they have been rewarded by not fixing their faults and losing and the one time they were pushed by Butler they wanted him out of town. Yes Butler is an asshole and blew things up here but how did Kat responded now this is his team. Having 2 10+ losing streaks and a current 15 personal game losing streak. Its not making Kat look great at all and in my mind makes Butler look right even though he is an asshole.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Couldn't agree with you more Kek. It's funny how Butler and a bunch of role players/young guys are 3rd in the Eastern Conference while KAT/Wiggins couldn't handle the guy and can't even come close to winning either before or after his tenure in Minnesota.

The only defense I have in terms of the system is that Rosas/Saunders are absolutely determined to play a certain way with certain positional roles and that he wants someone like KAT to play within this system so that as the roster gets upgraded, there is no need to adjust to new roles and responsibilities....it's just all the same, but with better players: So rather than tailoring our offense and defense to the existing players, it's more creating a system with KAT at the fulcrum and then turning over the roster until you find the right players that fit.

Now we can argue that in the NBA that is the absolute bass-ackwards approach. But if your assumption is nearly 100% roster turnover in a 2-3 year window, may be they don't think it's so crazy.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

Q12543 wrote:Couldn't agree with you more Kek. It's funny how Butler and a bunch of role players/young guys are 3rd in the Eastern Conference while KAT/Wiggins couldn't handle the guy and can't even come close to winning either before or after his tenure in Minnesota.

The only defense I have in terms of the system is that Rosas/Saunders are absolutely determined to play a certain way with certain positional roles and that he wants someone like KAT to play within this system so that as the roster gets upgraded, there is no need to adjust to new roles and responsibilities....it's just all the same, but with better players: So rather than tailoring our offense and defense to the existing players, it's more creating a system with KAT at the fulcrum and then turning over the roster until you find the right players that fit.

Now we can argue that in the NBA that is the absolute bass-ackwards approach. But if your assumption is nearly 100% roster turnover in a 2-3 year window, may be they don't think it's so crazy.


I think it's a bit crazy to have the attitude that if we play 2 bigs now we won't be able to effectively transition to one in the future with a different roster. All these guys do is play basketball all year. You should be able to easily modify a system year in and year out to match your roster. That just doesn't track with me as a valid excuse for Ryan and Rosas. The way we play now really should have no effect on how we play next year if we want to play a different way with that team. These guys act like it's rocket science almost as like a cover, but it's just not when you do it as a professional year in and year out. Basketball just isn't as hard as this team makes it out to be and if it truly is that challenging for these guys then we have a serious basketball IQ problem in the building.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

khans2k5 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:Couldn't agree with you more Kek. It's funny how Butler and a bunch of role players/young guys are 3rd in the Eastern Conference while KAT/Wiggins couldn't handle the guy and can't even come close to winning either before or after his tenure in Minnesota.

The only defense I have in terms of the system is that Rosas/Saunders are absolutely determined to play a certain way with certain positional roles and that he wants someone like KAT to play within this system so that as the roster gets upgraded, there is no need to adjust to new roles and responsibilities....it's just all the same, but with better players: So rather than tailoring our offense and defense to the existing players, it's more creating a system with KAT at the fulcrum and then turning over the roster until you find the right players that fit.

Now we can argue that in the NBA that is the absolute bass-ackwards approach. But if your assumption is nearly 100% roster turnover in a 2-3 year window, may be they don't think it's so crazy.


I think it's a bit crazy to have the attitude that if we play 2 bigs now we won't be able to effectively transition to one in the future with a different roster. All these guys do is play basketball all year. You should be able to easily modify a system year in and year out to match your roster. That just doesn't track with me as a valid excuse for Ryan and Rosas. The way we play now really should have no effect on how we play next year if we want to play a different way with that team. These guys act like it's rocket science almost as like a cover, but it's just not when you do it as a professional year in and year out. Basketball just isn't as hard as this team makes it out to be and if it truly is that challenging for these guys then we have a serious basketball IQ problem in the building.



Ha. You're right.

NO DECENT FRANCHISE does stuff like this.

Milwaukee (remember when we used to compare the Wolves favorably to the Bucks around here...)... completely changed the way it played with the new regime a couple years back.

Did they dupe the fans into a multi-year project? NO. Overnight, the Bucks went from 25th in the league on three pointers to 2nd... and won 16 MORE games.

But it was more than that. The Bucks also completely changed how they play defense. Under Kidd, they had a very unique style with trapping and running all over the place to one that is very strict in its principles to giving up threes but protecting the rim.

Did it take 5 years to implement? 3? 1?

It took 0 years. They won 16 MORE games in the first season.





[Note: Milwaukee is not the exception. The Wolves are. We need to stop falling for it.]
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Today's fun facts:

The Wolves haven't beaten a team with a winning record since 11/17 (Utah).
The Wolves have beaten only two teams with winning records all season.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

khans2k5 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:Couldn't agree with you more Kek. It's funny how Butler and a bunch of role players/young guys are 3rd in the Eastern Conference while KAT/Wiggins couldn't handle the guy and can't even come close to winning either before or after his tenure in Minnesota.

The only defense I have in terms of the system is that Rosas/Saunders are absolutely determined to play a certain way with certain positional roles and that he wants someone like KAT to play within this system so that as the roster gets upgraded, there is no need to adjust to new roles and responsibilities....it's just all the same, but with better players: So rather than tailoring our offense and defense to the existing players, it's more creating a system with KAT at the fulcrum and then turning over the roster until you find the right players that fit.

Now we can argue that in the NBA that is the absolute bass-ackwards approach. But if your assumption is nearly 100% roster turnover in a 2-3 year window, may be they don't think it's so crazy.


I think it's a bit crazy to have the attitude that if we play 2 bigs now we won't be able to effectively transition to one in the future with a different roster. All these guys do is play basketball all year. You should be able to easily modify a system year in and year out to match your roster. That just doesn't track with me as a valid excuse for Ryan and Rosas. The way we play now really should have no effect on how we play next year if we want to play a different way with that team. These guys act like it's rocket science almost as like a cover, but it's just not when you do it as a professional year in and year out. Basketball just isn't as hard as this team makes it out to be and if it truly is that challenging for these guys then we have a serious basketball IQ problem in the building.


Don't necessarily disagree, just trying to understand their thinking here. I'm firmly in Abe's camp that tanking is corrosive to the culture and it's proven time and again not to do anything but lead to more losing with this franchise.
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kekgeek
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by kekgeek »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Today's fun facts:

The Wolves haven't beaten a team with a winning record since 11/17 (Utah).
The Wolves have beaten only two teams with winning records all season.


And one of those wins was when Jimmy Butler didn't play
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Leado01
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Re: Do you agree tanking is best for the Wolves?

Post by Leado01 »

No . . .tanking/losing has gotten us here
1965-2025
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