The last resort of Kings? (Wolves/Kings...who cares?)

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Not sure how anyone can watch this team and not see how losing and tanking permeates into the very mentality of the team and its best players. Does anyone believe KAT or Wiggins has it in them to take over a game on both ends of the floor and win a close game? I certainly don't. Perpetual losing for draft assets leads to nothing but more losing.

Glad I didn't watch this one.

[Leado01]

Not sure how anyone can watch this team and not see how losing and tanking permeates into the very mentality of the team and its best players. Does anyone believe KAT or Wiggins has it in them to take over a game on both ends of the floor and win a close game? I certainly don't. Perpetual losing for draft assets leads to nothing but more losing.

Glad I didn't watch this one.

Which is why we can't tank...

[Lipoli390]

Not sure how anyone can watch this team and not see how losing and tanking permeates into the very mentality of the team and its best players. Does anyone believe KAT or Wiggins has it in them to take over a game on both ends of the floor and win a close game? I certainly don't. Perpetual losing for draft assets leads to nothing but more losing.

Glad I didn't watch this one.

I disagree. When you're already a bad team, losing creates the opportunity to get better. The Sixers did it and, you might recall, the Warriors did it too. This team doesn't have the players to be a contending team. For a mid-market team like the Wolves, especially given our cap situation, the draft is key and losing improves the team's draft position. This team needs much better personnel and a better head coach. Meet those needs and the team will start winning. Otherwise, whether they finish with 22 wins or 32 wins doesn't matter. That's my view anyway.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Not sure how anyone can watch this team and not see how losing and tanking permeates into the very mentality of the team and its best players. Does anyone believe KAT or Wiggins has it in them to take over a game on both ends of the floor and win a close game? I certainly don't. Perpetual losing for draft assets leads to nothing but more losing.

Glad I didn't watch this one.

I disagree. When you're already a bad team, losing creates the opportunity to get better. The Sixers did it and, you might recall, the Warriors did it too. This team doesn't have the players to be a contending team. For a mid-market team like the Wolves, especially given our cap situation, the draft is key and losing improves the team's draft position. This team needs much better personnel and a better head coach. Meet those needs and the team will start winning. Otherwise, whether they finish with 22 wins or 32 wins doesn't matter. That's my view anyway.

I don't know how much more evidence we need. It's been 15 years!

Wiggins and KAT are literally being told that winning doesn't matter. How are we expecting them to be able to "turn it on" when it's actually time to win games if they've both gone 5+ years being told the complete opposite? They have no idea what's needed to win games. None.

Saying the right media sound bite is worthless. This franchise reeks of loserville. It's not a secret. It's a very public take from every plugged-in NBA fan.

Rehashing failed Wolves strategies for the umpteenth time seems like a ruse for rubes at this point to me. Losing 60 vs. 50 games might give the Wolves a 12% better chance at a better player who has a 4% to 7% chance at becoming a guy to lead this team to relevance. Those are numbers.

I'm a basketball fan, not a mathematician or analyst. I like to watch good players get better. I like to see good basketball. I like to see guys try to win games.

Personally, I think that's a simple goal that 25 or 28 other franchises seem to realize... and have executed very recently.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The Warriors were never THIS bad for THIS long. And they built their foundation with a #7 pick (Curry), and #11 pick (Thompson) and a 2nd rounder (Green). So they proved you didn't have to be among the worst of the worst to identify and develop elite talent.

The Sixers would not have been as bad as long as they were if it were not for the horrible luck of nearly every rookie they drafted during the "process" being hurt and out for an entire season. Also, when their process started, they were only two seasons removed from competing in the Eastern Conference Semis.

It could be argued that no team in the history of modern day professional sports loses as much as the Wolves have. We currently have two healthy former #1 picks on the roster.

To Abe's point, the evidence is in front of our faces. Losing begets more losing.

[WildWolf2813]

Not sure how anyone can watch this team and not see how losing and tanking permeates into the very mentality of the team and its best players. Does anyone believe KAT or Wiggins has it in them to take over a game on both ends of the floor and win a close game? I certainly don't. Perpetual losing for draft assets leads to nothing but more losing.

Glad I didn't watch this one.

they're not tanking.

They're just really really good at losing. They don't have to try hard to lose games.

The problem with this version of the Wolves is that nobody is thriving in this system or this team. When Al Jefferson was here, we sucked and the picks sucked but at least Big Al was a borderline all-star who looked to be improving. Then it was Kevin Love. Then it was the joy of watching Rubio play fun basketball. Then it was those 2 years where Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, Dieng hell even Bazz looked impressive.

This team was at its most fun this year seemingly when KAT and Wiggins weren't there which is ridiculous. The guy who statistically has played better is Wiggins and word is we got denied on a Wiggins/Batum swap. Jarrett Culver (who I still have faith in even though I think he needs to be in Iowa) makes Rubio look like Kyle Korver with a green light. Nothing is working and most of these guys are gonna be back next year.

[Wolvesfan21]

The Warriors were never THIS bad for THIS long. And they built their foundation with a #7 pick (Curry), and #11 pick (Thompson) and a 2nd rounder (Green). So they proved you didn't have to be among the worst of the worst to identify and develop elite talent.

The Sixers would not have been as bad as long as they were if it were not for the horrible luck of nearly every rookie they drafted during the "process" being hurt and out for an entire season. Also, when their process started, they were only two seasons removed from competing in the Eastern Conference Semis.

It could be argued that no team in the history of modern day professional sports loses as much as the Wolves have. We currently have two healthy former #1 picks on the roster.

To Abe's point, the evidence is in front of our faces. Losing begets more losing.

They were also somewhat lucky too. Imagine if Curry was picked by Kahn? Would GSW have won any chips? It's so amazing how one pick can change the next 10 years.

So how was GSW lucky? Kahn passed on Curry. Just like how Dallas was lucky that both Sacramento and Phoenix passed on Doncic. To a lesser extent Atlanta too. They all could have landed him but were morons.

Maybe it's just having other teams be flat out imbeciles so you can be adequate.

[kekgeek]

The Warriors were never THIS bad for THIS long. And they built their foundation with a #7 pick (Curry), and #11 pick (Thompson) and a 2nd rounder (Green). So they proved you didn't have to be among the worst of the worst to identify and develop elite talent.

The Sixers would not have been as bad as long as they were if it were not for the horrible luck of nearly every rookie they drafted during the "process" being hurt and out for an entire season. Also, when their process started, they were only two seasons removed from competing in the Eastern Conference Semis.

It could be argued that no team in the history of modern day professional sports loses as much as the Wolves have. We currently have two healthy former #1 picks on the roster.

To Abe's point, the evidence is in front of our faces. Losing begets more losing.

I did this earlier in the season but look at the playoff teams.

The East
Bucks- No high draft pick that they drafted, built off getting a great pick in Giannis
Raptors- The defending NBA champions have no pick in the top 10 on their roster that they drafted.
Celtics- Even when they traded everyone away (Pierce, KG, Terry, Rondo), they still competed. Only 1 guy added in the top ten that they didn't acquire from a trade and that was Smart.
Heat- 1 pick in the Top Ten, who was Winslow who was taken 10th. Built something off late lotto picks and using guys who were drafted later like Richardson to acquire Butler.
Pacers- 0 players drafted within the top 10, made playoffs 9 of the last 10 years
76ers- Built a team through the process, one of the few teams that built on tanking. But in that tank job they wasted 2 years of drafting, Okafor and Noel and they are an Embiid college injury away from having Parker as a 76ers getting drafted 3rd.
Nets- Traded every future asset for old washed up players. Never drafted in the top 10 and are still super competitive.
Magic- A team that is 6 games under 500 but their best player in Vucevic was drafted in the middle of the 1st round. There high picks in Gordan, Bamba and Issac have been ok but are not amazing.

That is the East 2, teams in the playoffs had multiple non traded picks in the top ten and that is the 6th seed Sixers who took tanking to an extreme and the 8th seed 6 games under 500 magic.

Now the West

Lakers- No top 10 picks that they drafted on the roster
Clippers- No top 10 picks that they have drafted on the roster
Nuggets- 1 top ten guy in Murray currently on the roster, they have not won 40 3 times in a 15 year stretch, one year they didn't have a pick and the other they drafted Mudiay. So they built through 2nd round pick Jokic and filled the gaps in with mid to late round picks.
Jazz- 0 players drafted in the top ten. Traded Trey Lyles for Mitchell who was a late lotto pick.
Rockets- 0 drafted players in the top ten
Mavs- 1 player they drafted in the top ten and that was Luka, where they got him in their 2nd year of not winning 40 games for the 1st time in 16 years
Thunder- 0 players drafted in the top ten
Grizzlies- 2 top ten guys, got both of the guys due to injuries by Conley and Gasol. Also the last 2 years were the 1st time they didn't make the playoffs in 7 years.

So 1 team has multiple top 10 picks drafted by that team in the playoffs in the NBA.

In total of the 16 playoff teams

There is 11 players drafted in the top ten by there current team. 13 if you count Tatum and Brown who were technically traded for. 5 of those 13 players are by the 8 seeds in both conference.

Wolves currently have 3 players drafted in the Top Ten (Wiggins, Towns, Culver) they will be adding their 4th this year. I want to know where the proof is that tanking is correct. The only team that tanked and got significantly good was the 76ers, and like I said they are a Embiid college injury away from having Parker on their team instead of Embiid. So there picks in 4 years would have been, Parker, Noel, Okafor, Simmons.

I want to know where the proof is that tanking works.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The Warriors were never THIS bad for THIS long. And they built their foundation with a #7 pick (Curry), and #11 pick (Thompson) and a 2nd rounder (Green). So they proved you didn't have to be among the worst of the worst to identify and develop elite talent.

The Sixers would not have been as bad as long as they were if it were not for the horrible luck of nearly every rookie they drafted during the "process" being hurt and out for an entire season. Also, when their process started, they were only two seasons removed from competing in the Eastern Conference Semis.

It could be argued that no team in the history of modern day professional sports loses as much as the Wolves have. We currently have two healthy former #1 picks on the roster.

To Abe's point, the evidence is in front of our faces. Losing begets more losing.

They were also somewhat lucky too. Imagine if Curry was picked by Kahn? Would GSW have won any chips? It's so amazing how one pick can change the next 10 years.

So how was GSW lucky? Kahn passed on Curry. Just like how Dallas was lucky that both Sacramento and Phoenix passed on Doncic. To a lesser extent Atlanta too. They all could have landed him but were morons.

Maybe it's just having other teams be flat out imbeciles so you can be adequate.

YES. Sometimes that's all it takes.

The NBA has such a rich history in part, BECAUSE of really really stupid decisions. I think it far surpasses anything the other major sports can provide, because one player can really make all the difference.

I still hold out hope that Rosas can identify the dumby in the room... and fleece him.




[Note: It's time to be on that end of the deal for Wolves fans.]

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The Warriors were never THIS bad for THIS long. And they built their foundation with a #7 pick (Curry), and #11 pick (Thompson) and a 2nd rounder (Green). So they proved you didn't have to be among the worst of the worst to identify and develop elite talent.

The Sixers would not have been as bad as long as they were if it were not for the horrible luck of nearly every rookie they drafted during the "process" being hurt and out for an entire season. Also, when their process started, they were only two seasons removed from competing in the Eastern Conference Semis.

It could be argued that no team in the history of modern day professional sports loses as much as the Wolves have. We currently have two healthy former #1 picks on the roster.

To Abe's point, the evidence is in front of our faces. Losing begets more losing.

I did this earlier in the season but look at the playoff teams.

The East
Bucks- No high draft pick that they drafted, built off getting a great pick in Giannis
Raptors- The defending NBA champions have no pick in the top 10 on their roster that they drafted.
Celtics- Even when they traded everyone away (Pierce, KG, Terry, Rondo), they still competed. Only 1 guy added in the top ten that they didn't acquire from a trade and that was Smart.
Heat- 1 pick in the Top Ten, who was Winslow who was taken 10th. Built something off late lotto picks and using guys who were drafted later like Richardson to acquire Butler.
Pacers- 0 players drafted within the top 10, made playoffs 9 of the last 10 years
76ers- Built a team through the process, one of the few teams that built on tanking. But in that tank job they wasted 2 years of drafting, Okafor and Noel and they are an Embiid college injury away from having Parker as a 76ers getting drafted 3rd.
Nets- Traded every future asset for old washed up players. Never drafted in the top 10 and are still super competitive.
Magic- A team that is 6 games under 500 but their best player in Vucevic was drafted in the middle of the 1st round. There high picks in Gordan, Bamba and Issac have been ok but are not amazing.

That is the East 2, teams in the playoffs had multiple non traded picks in the top ten and that is the 6th seed Sixers who took tanking to an extreme and the 8th seed 6 games under 500 magic.

Now the West

Lakers- No top 10 picks that they drafted on the roster
Clippers- No top 10 picks that they have drafted on the roster
Nuggets- 1 top ten guy in Murray currently on the roster, they have not won 40 3 times in a 15 year stretch, one year they didn't have a pick and the other they drafted Mudiay. So they built through 2nd round pick Jokic and filled the gaps in with mid to late round picks.
Jazz- 0 players drafted in the top ten. Traded Trey Lyles for Mitchell who was a late lotto pick.
Rockets- 0 drafted players in the top ten
Mavs- 1 player they drafted in the top ten and that was Luka, where they got him in their 2nd year of not winning 40 games for the 1st time in 16 years
Thunder- 0 players drafted in the top ten
Grizzlies- 2 top ten guys, got both of the guys due to injuries by Conley and Gasol. Also the last 2 years were the 1st time they didn't make the playoffs in 7 years.

So 1 team has multiple top 10 picks drafted by that team in the playoffs in the NBA.

In total of the 16 playoff teams

There is 11 players drafted in the top ten by there current team. 13 if you count Tatum and Brown who were technically traded for. 5 of those 13 players are by the 8 seeds in both conference.

Wolves currently have 3 players drafted in the Top Ten (Wiggins, Towns, Culver) they will be adding their 4th this year. I want to know where the proof is that tanking is correct. The only team that tanked and got significantly good was the 76ers, and like I said they are a Embiid college injury away from having Parker on their team instead of Embiid. So there picks in 4 years would have been, Parker, Noel, Okafor, Simmons.

I want to know where the proof is that tanking works.

Yup, it's amazing how so many other teams have been able to stay consistently competitive- both big AND smaller market teams like Indiana - without having to rely on multiple high lottery picks. And think about this...for a brief window, we held THREE consecutive #1 picks in Bennett, Wiggins, and KAT! Yet here we sit after 15+ years with only a Jimmy Butler/Thibs-led squad able to muscle us into the playoffs.

I think Lip is just trying to rationalize all the losing and spin it into a silver lining of better lottery odds. I don't blame him given all the $, time, and emotional capital he's given to this franchise.