Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:Noah seems to be more likely to produce if he is healthy. He seems less likely to be healthy and while a defensive center sounds nice...we don't really need a center that bad. Deng hasn't been that productive in his minutes for the Lakers. CAMELO has him as a plus defender for the Lakers and projects him to continue to be a plus defender and negative offensively. He fits the modern game more as a stretch 4 which could be handy. He is more of a guy that would be a mentor than Noah. I won't be shocked if a few teams have interest in him. The Wolves new assistant coach Malik Allen was a vet on the Bulls when Deng was a young guy. I think I'm leaning towards adding Deng if I had to pick one but I don't feel super strong either way. I think either COULD have something left. There is a good chance they don't either but a lot of FAs have a chance to basically suck.

Im surprised you think Noah would be more productive than Deng. Noah has been really bad offensively his last 3 years including his last year with the Bulls (only 82 games worth) and his Drtg and DPM has started to drop and has dropped to similar ratings as Gorgui.

TheSP wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:I would be fine with Deng, I mean every player left would probably make little impact to the Wolves this year. I would rather have Deng then Noah for the fact that I think both will bring little to the team this year but Deng is known to be at least a good dude, not so sure about Noah (in the terms of team chemistry).

In other news apparently more info about Kat and Butler is going to be posted in the Pioneer Press tomorrow that there is more to the bad Kat and Butler relationship. (Did Jimmy fuck Kat GF because if it is not serious like that both KAT and Butler need to put pride aside and figure this thing out).

The players run this assylum, so nobody needs to do anything, and nobody can tell them they need to. Even setting aside the super teams that make it virtually impossible for 27 of the 30 teams to seriously compete for a championship, the fact that players have as much power as they do in the NBA is going to be it's ruin. After all those years in the Timberwolves wilderness I'm actually losing interest now that the team has actual NBA talent.

As for Deng, if this thing is going to implode, let's make sure it does so in spectacular fashion!

I understand your feelings, I am so torn on things, we want players to take pay cuts to stay home or win, and that is what Cousins did, and they got a once in a lifetime cap space jump to sign Durant. Its just so annoying that teams like the Wolves realistically have no shot at winning it all. I am guessing the reason why you lost interest in this Wolves team is that even with NBA talent now on the Wolves and being a good team the Wolves don't have that hope anymore, we have used our assets of high picks (wiggins, Towns), traded for a All NBA type player (Butler) and the Wolves are still far away from a title, with no high % path to get to that level. When we were bad we had hope, hopefully this high pick can become the next all nba type player and save the franchise. (I would still take winning over those days but it is rough)

kekgeek1 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:How about we add neither of em, stop trying to give mentors to our $30 mil a year players who should have had it figured out by now, and actually focus on player development.

I remember when people groaned on here when Tayshaun Prince was getting crunch time minutes at the expense of our youth, but some of y'all wanna relive this with Deng?

Its not even the mentor role, its that we have no proven backup wings on the roster. Rose is still a PG first but he will be asked to play SG, Nunnally is just coming back to the NBA and he was not productive his first time around, Okogie is a rookie. We have no guarantee that any of these players will actually produce this year off the bench so you try and add as many eggs into the basket as you can and hope one of them can become a plus player.. We are at the point of the organization where winning games is so much more important than giving some young guys run.

*On the Prince thing, the Wolves were not good defensively that year but when Prince was on the court the wolves were 5 pts better per 100 possessions defensively what would put him in the 96th percentile that year. So he helped the wolves that year.

then instead of giving Tolliver $5 mil to essentially be our player rep, Thibs shoulda been calling those FA's, but word is most of them basically scoff at this situation because there's no opportunity to play. If those players are to ever come here, they need a reason. An easy solution to that is to not play Wiggins and Butler so much, Wiggins because he doesn't deserve so much PT, Butler for preservation's sake.

This is a franchise that shouldn't and don't have to decide between player development and winning. It's doable. The Spurs are a well oiled machine because they take care of the youth while still winning. Getting the Deng's and Noah's not only display bad optics for Thibs and his entire plan, but it doesn't really solve anything as far as winning or player development. If we need Deng and Noah to tell Towns and Wiggins to play defense, we're investing in the wrong players. Not to mention, it's tough to need guys to get these youngins to adapt to a plan they might not need once Thibs is out of a job.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:How about we add neither of em, stop trying to give mentors to our $30 mil a year players who should have had it figured out by now, and actually focus on player development.

I remember when people groaned on here when Tayshaun Prince was getting crunch time minutes at the expense of our youth, but some of y'all wanna relive this with Deng?

Its not even the mentor role, its that we have no proven backup wings on the roster. Rose is still a PG first but he will be asked to play SG, Nunnally is just coming back to the NBA and he was not productive his first time around, Okogie is a rookie. We have no guarantee that any of these players will actually produce this year off the bench so you try and add as many eggs into the basket as you can and hope one of them can become a plus player.. We are at the point of the organization where winning games is so much more important than giving some young guys run.

*On the Prince thing, the Wolves were not good defensively that year but when Prince was on the court the wolves were 5 pts better per 100 possessions defensively what would put him in the 96th percentile that year. So he helped the wolves that year.

then instead of giving Tolliver $5 mil to essentially be our player rep, Thibs shoulda been calling those FA's, but word is most of them basically scoff at this situation because there's no opportunity to play. If those players are to ever come here, they need a reason. An easy solution to that is to not play Wiggins and Butler so much, Wiggins because he doesn't deserve so much PT, Butler for preservation's sake.

This is a franchise that shouldn't and don't have to decide between player development and winning. It's doable. The Spurs are a well oiled machine because they take care of the youth while still winning. Getting the Deng's and Noah's not only display bad optics for Thibs and his entire plan, but it doesn't really solve anything as far as winning or player development. If we need Deng and Noah to tell Towns and Wiggins to play defense, we're investing in the wrong players. Not to mention, it's tough to need guys to get these youngins to adapt to a plan they might not need once Thibs is out of a job.

Tolliver fits the role we need he was a elite 3pt shooter last year and was in the top 5 in the NBA in taking charges. We didn't have money to go out and get better players, and you tell me the guys that are so much better then Tolliver who was signed for 5 mil or less.

Its not about the mentor ship of Deng or Noah its if they could help the team win. The Wolves starting unit I believe ranked 3 in the NBA in pt differential. The bench was the problem, the wolves were 5.4 pts per 100 possession worse when Crawford was on the floor what was in the 25th percentile, and we were in the 4th percentile on defense when Crawford was on the court. If Deng can be 2 pts better than Crawford was last year that could be the difference between 8th seed or the 2 seed.

With the Player Development, they had one of the best 15 players to ever play the game in Duncan, that helps a shit ton and when Duncan got old they drafted one of the top 3 players in the NBA Kawhi. Sure player development matters but the Spurs also added Stephen Jackson, Tmac, Pau Gasol all who are on the down side of their career. And in the last 7 drafts the Spurs had 2 guys that made any type of impact for there team (Kyle Anderson and Murray) and Murray is the only one who is a plus player on their team right now. Player development has been amazing in the recent years for the Spurs but they have still be successful.

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Noah seems to be more likely to produce if he is healthy. He seems less likely to be healthy and while a defensive center sounds nice...we don't really need a center that bad. Deng hasn't been that productive in his minutes for the Lakers. CAMELO has him as a plus defender for the Lakers and projects him to continue to be a plus defender and negative offensively. He fits the modern game more as a stretch 4 which could be handy. He is more of a guy that would be a mentor than Noah. I won't be shocked if a few teams have interest in him. The Wolves new assistant coach Malik Allen was a vet on the Bulls when Deng was a young guy. I think I'm leaning towards adding Deng if I had to pick one but I don't feel super strong either way. I think either COULD have something left. There is a good chance they don't either but a lot of FAs have a chance to basically suck.

Im surprised you think Noah would be more productive than Deng. Noah has been really bad offensively his last 3 years including his last year with the Bulls (only 82 games worth) and his Drtg and DPM has started to drop and has dropped to similar ratings as Gorgui.

For Noah the per 36 numbers of the stuff you expect out of him are still there. He has still been a plus defender in the small amount of minutes he played...all of this is a small sample. The reason to bring him here is defense and rebounding and some stats say that he can still do that. That's where I am coming from. He also still has some decent assist numbers but realistically he isn't coming here for his offense.

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Noah seems to be more likely to produce if he is healthy. He seems less likely to be healthy and while a defensive center sounds nice...we don't really need a center that bad. Deng hasn't been that productive in his minutes for the Lakers. CAMELO has him as a plus defender for the Lakers and projects him to continue to be a plus defender and negative offensively. He fits the modern game more as a stretch 4 which could be handy. He is more of a guy that would be a mentor than Noah. I won't be shocked if a few teams have interest in him. The Wolves new assistant coach Malik Allen was a vet on the Bulls when Deng was a young guy. I think I'm leaning towards adding Deng if I had to pick one but I don't feel super strong either way. I think either COULD have something left. There is a good chance they don't either but a lot of FAs have a chance to basically suck.

Im surprised you think Noah would be more productive than Deng. Noah has been really bad offensively his last 3 years including his last year with the Bulls (only 82 games worth) and his Drtg and DPM has started to drop and has dropped to similar ratings as Gorgui.

For Noah the per 36 numbers of the stuff you expect out of him are still there. He has still been a plus defender in the small amount of minutes he played...all of this is a small sample. The reason to bring him here is defense and rebounding and some stats say that he can still do that. That's where I am coming from. He also still has some decent assist numbers but realistically he isn't coming here for his offense.

Good post, Monster. I really do think Noah could potentially help us. I don't see Deng helping us, but I could be wrong.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Noah seems to be more likely to produce if he is healthy. He seems less likely to be healthy and while a defensive center sounds nice...we don't really need a center that bad. Deng hasn't been that productive in his minutes for the Lakers. CAMELO has him as a plus defender for the Lakers and projects him to continue to be a plus defender and negative offensively. He fits the modern game more as a stretch 4 which could be handy. He is more of a guy that would be a mentor than Noah. I won't be shocked if a few teams have interest in him. The Wolves new assistant coach Malik Allen was a vet on the Bulls when Deng was a young guy. I think I'm leaning towards adding Deng if I had to pick one but I don't feel super strong either way. I think either COULD have something left. There is a good chance they don't either but a lot of FAs have a chance to basically suck.

Im surprised you think Noah would be more productive than Deng. Noah has been really bad offensively his last 3 years including his last year with the Bulls (only 82 games worth) and his Drtg and DPM has started to drop and has dropped to similar ratings as Gorgui.

For Noah the per 36 numbers of the stuff you expect out of him are still there. He has still been a plus defender in the small amount of minutes he played...all of this is a small sample. The reason to bring him here is defense and rebounding and some stats say that he can still do that. That's where I am coming from. He also still has some decent assist numbers but realistically he isn't coming here for his offense.

Good post, Monster. I really do think Noah could potentially help us. I don't see Deng helping us, but I could be wrong.

I think if Deng helps it won't be because of any obvious stats. He isn't going to pile up rebounds points etc. I'd see him being sort of a T Prince or Rush type guy for this team (although obviously playing more 4) and he would likely be pretty deep on the bench not starting a bunch of games like those guys had to. There is also a chance he has more left to give than either of those guys and likely will be a better shooter than Prince was that last year...which is a pretty low bar. Lol it's going to be interesting to see what interest both guys get around the league.

We already have Tyus, Towns, Wiggins, KBD, Okogie and Patton. That's more than a 1/3rd of the roster 23 and under. I don't get why we wouldn't be adding vets to this team at this point. We have a young guy at every position to develop already. Now we just need guys who can fill in roles while these guys develop. You want people that can fill in and then if a young guy beats them out for the spot they can also be fine riding the bench.

I joke, but deng could be useful as the veteran lockerroom presence we surely need.

We have vets, but i don't think any of them act as a mentor.

Taj is the stable vet, the rock
Butler is all about butler.
Teague just seems like a nice guy.
Maybe deng could be that guy abd wase into an assistant coach type role in the future.

Deng is reported to be scheduled to come in for a visit next week. I'd be curious as to what opportunity he is going to be offered in terms of role and playing time on the team and what he is willing to accept. There are a couple reports out there that other playoff teams have interest. It might not be Wolves or bust for him. I don't know who is going to offer him regular rotation minutes and while I don't imagine him getting the Aaron Brooks treatment I'm not sure there is a place for him to play every night either. He would be a nice enough backup plan at PF in case Taj gets hurt...assuming Deng can still play which I personally think there is a decent chance he can still play. This team went through stretches of time without a true PF type and if we added Deng we would suggest have some real options there of mobile guys that can at least defend on the perimeter and a couple of them including Tolliver might be able to stretch the floor too. It's interesting timing that they had that free agent workout right about the time Deng was going to be an option.