Minnesota Sports Forum

It's not like we have a toxic locker room that he'd be entering, I would love to pick up Jackson if we end up being so lucky

TeamRicky wrote:Lip, what do you like about Jackson that you don't find in Isaac or Tatum? I would be real happy if we got any of the three, but I think it might be a blessing if we got stuck with Isaac because we didn't have a top two pick and Jackson was off the board.

Ricky - It's Josh's motor, basketball IQ, and defense. He's the complete package who simply needs to refine his shot. I like Tatum a lot, but I think Josh is the more dynamic player with a higher ceiling. I like Isaac, but I'm not sure about his thin build and defense. I'd probably grasp Isaac at #6. But if we make it to the top 3, I'd go with Josh. If we're at #3 and Josh goes in the top 2, I'd probably draft Tatum.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Monster -- Two incidents, not 5 or 10. Of those two, the one that concerns me is his threatening the woman. But unless there's more, I see anger management issues that can be dealt with. I don't see drug issues or gang-banging or other things that tend to be chronic and very difficult to remedy. If there's more behind what we know, then our front office will become aware of it and you'll see Josh drop into the lower lottery.

So 3 or 4 incidents are ok? How do you know there are not more since he doesn't seem to self report his incidents. He doesn't have a pattern of owning up to it unless he gets caught. We are talking about a top 3 pick in the draft not some #12 pick. These seem to be legit character concerns to me. Sure leaving it up to the Wolves to sort this out but basically dismissing it I don't get that.

Monster - I don't "know" there aren't more incidents just as you don't know there are. We both know there are two incidents. I guess I prefer to base my conclusions on what I actually know rather than speculation without any evidence to support it. It's a judgment call. It's a combination of the number and nature of the incidents. As I said, one of the incidents concerns me, but it strikes me as an anger-management issue that can be addressed in a guy Josh's age.

So I'll revise my initial comment from "not worried" to "not worried enough to pass on him in the draft. I'd feel differently if he actually hit a woman, brandished a gun, had a history of drug abuse or was known to associate with a really bad crowd. Now we may learn that there are such things in his background. But unless we do, I'd be comfortable drafting him assuming we are lucky enough to end up with a top 3 pick. You might disagree and that's fine. One thing for sure, the Wolves would do a very thorough background check on Josh before drafting him. I trust they won't draft him if they find out other things about him that reinforce or add to the concerns raised by these two incidents.

I'm not into speculating either. I probably brought up there maybe being other incidents because you brought up the possibility of IF there were 5 or 10 incidents thing which seems like quite a few to draw the line at.

Personally I don't see much difference between not being worried and not being worried enough not to draft him. I do get where you are coming from though. I guess I should say these incidents aren't bad enough I would pass on the guy but I'm not sure how much better he is than the next player ai could draft. I haven't got to that level in my draft evaluation yet. Anyway I'm belaboring the point now. Thanks for the back and forth.

Win the lottery and draft Fultz. I think in the new NBA you need a PG. Curry, Westbrook, Harden (defacto PG), CP3, Conley, Lillard, Irving, IT, Lowry, Wall. I would guess the Spurs will be the only team to advance without a really good PG. I think we have the wing and the big and we just need the PG and Fultz just seems to be a solid all-around player. Sign Gibson and Tucker to 2 year deals in the 12-15 range. I would give Ricky one more year to place hold and then if he reverts back to his old form see if you can trade him.

Rotation:
Ricky/Fultz/Tyus
Lavine/Dunn
Wiggins/Tucker
Gibson/Belly
Towns/G/Cole

Long-term:
Fultz/Dunn/Tyus
Dunn/Lavine
Wiggins
Belly
Towns/G

Find a 3/4 combo guy for small ball and there's your team. 9 man rotation.

lipoli390 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Lip, what do you like about Jackson that you don't find in Isaac or Tatum? I would be real happy if we got any of the three, but I think it might be a blessing if we got stuck with Isaac because we didn't have a top two pick and Jackson was off the board.

Ricky - It's Josh's motor, basketball IQ, and defense. He's the complete package who simply needs to refine his shot. I like Tatum a lot, but I think Josh is the more dynamic player with a higher ceiling. I like Isaac, but I'm not sure about his thin build and defense. I'd probably grasp Isaac at #6. But if we make it to the top 3, I'd go with Josh. If we're at #3 and Josh goes in the top 2, I'd probably draft Tatum.

OK, fair enough. There is a lot of debate over whether Isaac or Jackson has the higher ceiling and after reading many well thought out posts on both guys, I'd say its about an even split. I want to watch more game film on all three guys and see how workouts go, but I really feel all three guys are going to be good, if not special, players and for that reason, I am really hoping we keep our pick.

khans2k5 wrote:Win the lottery and draft Fultz. I think in the new NBA you need a PG. Curry, Westbrook, Harden (defacto PG), CP3, Conley, Lillard, Irving, IT, Lowry, Wall. I would guess the Spurs will be the only team to advance without a really good PG. I think we have the wing and the big and we just need the PG and Fultz just seems to be a solid all-around player. Sign Gibson and Tucker to 2 year deals in the 12-15 range. I would give Ricky one more year to place hold and then if he reverts back to his old form see if you can trade him.

Rotation:
Ricky/Fultz/Tyus
Lavine/Dunn
Wiggins/Tucker
Gibson/Belly
Towns/G/Cole

Long-term:
Fultz/Dunn/Tyus
Dunn/Lavine
Wiggins
Belly
Towns/G

Find a 3/4 combo guy for small ball and there's your team. 9 man rotation.

We don't need another point guard. We got Ricky, Dunn and Tyus. We are in better shape than most teams at point guard. No point guard we could draft will be as good as Ricky for at least three years and there is no certainty Fultz will be even be better than Dunn longer term.

On the other hand, we do need a wing who can play both ways. Wiggins and LaVine suck at defense. Trade the pick for Butler, Porter, George or Covington or draft Jackson, Isaac or Tatum.

TeamRicky wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Lip, what do you like about Jackson that you don't find in Isaac or Tatum? I would be real happy if we got any of the three, but I think it might be a blessing if we got stuck with Isaac because we didn't have a top two pick and Jackson was off the board.

Ricky - It's Josh's motor, basketball IQ, and defense. He's the complete package who simply needs to refine his shot. I like Tatum a lot, but I think Josh is the more dynamic player with a higher ceiling. I like Isaac, but I'm not sure about his thin build and defense. I'd probably grasp Isaac at #6. But if we make it to the top 3, I'd go with Josh. If we're at #3 and Josh goes in the top 2, I'd probably draft Tatum.

OK, fair enough. There is a lot of debate over whether Isaac or Jackson has the higher ceiling and after reading many well thought out posts on both guys, I'd say its about an even split. I want to watch more game film on all three guys and see how workouts go, but I really feel all three guys are going to be good, if not special, players and for that reason, I am really hoping we keep our pick.

There will be more draft discussion but I just spent some time watching some highlights and reading about the 3 wing players at the top of the draft.

I can see why people would want Jackson compared to Tatum and Isaac if they want a pure wing. That's what he is rangy has that type of athletic ability pretty old ball handling and plays his butt off. So if you want a pure wing that can guard perimeter players yeah he would be hard to pass up.

Tatum always struck me as a combo forward. Everything I saw or read confirmed what I saw watching games. That's not a bad thing especially in today's NBA game. His athletic ability isn't crazy awesome but he is a good athlete and looks to be able to get plenty strong. He is a guy that played a lot in isolation. In the realgm podcast they really liked Tatum bad said he really came on after the first couple months and Sam said he is a guy that works his butt off to be good and is just a good kid overall. He said his floor is very high it's very likely he will be at least a good starter and could surely be a very good player. His ball handling isn't super amazing and his first step is ok. This is a freshman though an he has some really advanced skills. Almost 85% from the FT line jumps out at you. Some of those skills overlap with guys we already have.

Isaac is so damn intriguing. He looks pretty good handling the ball for a guy that large and he moves pretty well. He looks like a more dynamic player in a few ways that Tatum but obviously not as polished and he is skinny but he is likely gonna measure out a few inches longer. He just looks like one of those crazy dude the NBA has coming in that can do all kinds of stuff all over the court. The knock on him seems too be more that he didn't take over games offensively. I'm not as concerned about that because the Wolves already have 3 dynamic offensive players plus whoever is the PG can make plays also. Isaac can fill in the gaps.

It seems like any of these guys are guys that are unselfish guys that want to play team basketball and may have the skill sets to be a guy that does a lot of stuff. They all have their merits I think if we got any of them I would be pretty happy. I'm still an Isaac fan but I admit he is probably a bit more risky than the other guys when it comes to what they can do basketball wise.

So that's where I am for now I don't usually change my mind too much when measurements come out but that could be a swaying factor. For example when some guys that are supposed to be lengthy SF end up just being SGish length that's a downer. If a big guy ends up with the length of a center it can sure help their case.

khans2k5 wrote:Win the lottery and draft Fultz. I think in the new NBA you need a PG. Curry, Westbrook, Harden (defacto PG), CP3, Conley, Lillard, Irving, IT, Lowry, Wall. I would guess the Spurs will be the only team to advance without a really good PG. I think we have the wing and the big and we just need the PG and Fultz just seems to be a solid all-around player. Sign Gibson and Tucker to 2 year deals in the 12-15 range. I would give Ricky one more year to place hold and then if he reverts back to his old form see if you can trade him.

Rotation:
Ricky/Fultz/Tyus
Lavine/Dunn
Wiggins/Tucker
Gibson/Belly
Towns/G/Cole

Long-term:
Fultz/Dunn/Tyus
Dunn/Lavine
Wiggins
Belly
Towns/G

Find a 3/4 combo guy for small ball and there's your team. 9 man rotation.

After watching these playoffs I've realized ( outside of scoring at pg but we have debated that here plenty) the last thing we need to spend a large chunk of $ on is a true PF like Gibson. We need one or two combo forwards and a 2/3 who are respectable from 3 and are agile enough to switch on D.

If we need to play big I trust a rotation of Towns, Gorgui, Bjelicia, and Aldrich. I don't trust any rotation we can throw out there for small ball, though either Towns or Gorgui can be the 5 in either style.

I was high on Patterson, but he's not been terribly noticeable for Toronto, definitely moved down a tier for me. Ingles on the other hand is playing phenomenal.

My tiers:

1) Jamychal Green, Iguodala, and Joe Ingles
2) Ibaka and Millsap (tier 2 because 30 mil scares me)
3) James Johnson, Tucker, Sefolosha
4) Patterson, Bojan Bogdanovic, Redick, Korver
5) Carter, Allen, Mirotic, Illyasova

My Tiers:

Tier 1: Otto Porter, Millsap, Ibaka, Gallinari, Lowry, George Hill, Covington
Tier 2: Gasol, Nerlens Noel, Rudy Gay (would be Tier 1 if healthy), K Caldwell-Pope, James Johnson, Amir Johnson, Taj Gibson, Teague, Greg Monroe
Tier 3: PJ Tucker, Redick, Sefolosha, Joe Ingles, Patty Mills, Mirotic, Ilyasova, Korver, Green, Iguadala, Bogut (if healthy),Olynyk, Pachulia, Tyreke Evans, Tony Snell, Dedmon
Tier 4: Tony Allen, Nene, Patterson, CJ Miles, Terrence Jones, Kuzminskas, Willie Reed, Anthony Morrow, Luke Babbitt, Dante Cunningham, Alex Len, Jerebko, Jodie Meeks, Bogdanovic, Javale McGee, Hibbert, Nick Young
Tier 5: James Young, Ben Bentil, KJ McDaniels, Troy Williams, Christian Wood,Gerald Green, Langston Galloway, Spencer Hawes, Casspi, Rush

TeamRicky wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Win the lottery and draft Fultz. I think in the new NBA you need a PG. Curry, Westbrook, Harden (defacto PG), CP3, Conley, Lillard, Irving, IT, Lowry, Wall. I would guess the Spurs will be the only team to advance without a really good PG. I think we have the wing and the big and we just need the PG and Fultz just seems to be a solid all-around player. Sign Gibson and Tucker to 2 year deals in the 12-15 range. I would give Ricky one more year to place hold and then if he reverts back to his old form see if you can trade him.

Rotation:
Ricky/Fultz/Tyus
Lavine/Dunn
Wiggins/Tucker
Gibson/Belly
Towns/G/Cole

Long-term:
Fultz/Dunn/Tyus
Dunn/Lavine
Wiggins
Belly
Towns/G

Find a 3/4 combo guy for small ball and there's your team. 9 man rotation.

We don't need another point guard. We got Ricky, Dunn and Tyus. We are in better shape than most teams at point guard. No point guard we could draft will be as good as Ricky for at least three years and there is no certainty Fultz will be even be better than Dunn longer term.

On the other hand, we do need a wing who can play both ways. Wiggins and LaVine suck at defense. Trade the pick for Butler, Porter, George or Covington or draft Jackson, Isaac or Tatum.

You don't draft for need when you are this close to the top of the draft. You draft BPA. Fultz is the best player in this draft. He has the size, shooting and skill to play both PG and SG. He can finish and pass with both hands. He attacks and has great body control. He's a guy who actually uses his dribble penetration to make plays for others. Look at the PG's in these playoffs. Ricky is worse than every single player I named. You really want to go into the playoffs with the 10th best PG every year while 7 of the 8 teams that advance are led by great PG's? We aren't set at PG. Ricky is middle of the pack in a league full of star PG's, Dunn has a lot of tightening up to do with his handle and shot and Tyus is a backup at best because of his size issues. You talk about Isaac like he's already great, but he's a twig and years away from being strong enough to be a productive player in this league. I don't care about contributions from a rookie next year. I care about what our team looks like long-term and Fultz at the PG spot is just going to be more valuable than Ricky because he can make plays for others and score the ball in every way you can think of. All the guys you mention are great prospects. There's a reason Fultz is higher than all of them. He's the complete PG offensively and has tools that under Thibs could make him a really good defender as well.