Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:Teague had a very good game. Now the Wolves are 2-1......just like the Jazz!

We own the tiebreaker though so that concludes the fact that Teague better than Ricky Rubio

Q12543 wrote:Teague had a very good game. Now the Wolves are 2-1......just like the Jazz!

If we're going by record than Teague is about 3 or 4 times the player Rubio is for their careers.

Here is another observation. Last year we had umpteen times we had late leads and lost the game. This year we are 2-0 in that situation.

An argument can be made with Rubio being the primary initiator on offense, he was a large part of the 4th quarter collapses, because he can be shut down in crunchtime. And it was a challenge for Wiggins/Kat/LaVine to suddenly be the ones that had to initiate the offense. Now, initiating the offense is being share by more players throughout the entire game.

And we all noticed this last year. Remember when Rubio struggled to start the year because Thibs was having multiple players initiate the offense. And we all commented on how Rubio was so much more effective once Thibs put the ball in his hands. That worked well for three quarters of the game, but we collapsed in the end.

It seems clear Thibs wanted to have other players consistently initiate the offense. Which makes sense with Butler, Wiggins and Kat on the roster. And Rubio does not fit that kind of offense.

Point for Teague!

60WinTim wrote:Here is another observation. Last year we had umpteen times we had late leads and lost the game. This year we are 2-0 in that situation.

An argument can be made with Rubio being the primary initiator on offense, he was a large part of the 4th quarter collapses, because he can be shut down in crunchtime. And it was a challenge for Wiggins/Kat/LaVine to suddenly be the ones that had to initiate the offense. Now, initiating the offense is being share by more players throughout the entire game.

And we all noticed this last year. Remember when Rubio struggled to start the year because Thibs was having multiple players initiate the offense. And we all commented on how Rubio was so much more effective once Thibs put the ball in his hands. That worked well for three quarters of the game, but we collapsed in the end.

It seems clear Thibs wanted to have other players consistently initiate the offense. Which makes sense with Butler, Wiggins and Kat on the roster. And Rubio does not fit that kind of offense.

Point for Teague!

I think there's a fair point here, but part of that is also having Butler. In a couple games now, we've been able to put the ball in Butler (or even Wiggins') hands down the stretch, and Teague can play off the ball and still draws a defender. We couldn't really do that with Rubio, although Thibs obviously tried it with Wiggins last year. Rubio's defender always sagged off quite a bit. When Rubio had the ball down the stretch, defenses knew he was much more likely to pass it, again making like difficult. Now, opposing bigs in particular have to keep an eye on Teague to watch out for the floater. So even if we keep the ball in Teague's hands down the stretch, we can threaten to pass or score with the ball, keeping defenses guessing.

I was mostly happy with Wiggins' handling and passing tonight, but to me the difference was Butler. Having that dual threat guy who can handle and pass, but also score is just a really nice asset to have on the wing in crunch time.

How many days until we can trade Teague for Bledsoe?

Just don't let him go to the Clippers!! Send him East!

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

60WinTim wrote:Here is another observation. Last year we had umpteen times we had late leads and lost the game. This year we are 2-0 in that situation.

An argument can be made with Rubio being the primary initiator on offense, he was a large part of the 4th quarter collapses, because he can be shut down in crunchtime. And it was a challenge for Wiggins/Kat/LaVine to suddenly be the ones that had to initiate the offense. Now, initiating the offense is being share by more players throughout the entire game.

And we all noticed this last year. Remember when Rubio struggled to start the year because Thibs was having multiple players initiate the offense. And we all commented on how Rubio was so much more effective once Thibs put the ball in his hands. That worked well for three quarters of the game, but we collapsed in the end.

It seems clear Thibs wanted to have other players consistently initiate the offense. Which makes sense with Butler, Wiggins and Kat on the roster. And Rubio does not fit that kind of offense.

Point for Teague!

I think there's a fair point here, but part of that is also having Butler. In a couple games now, we've been able to put the ball in Butler (or even Wiggins') hands down the stretch, and Teague can play off the ball and still draws a defender. We couldn't really do that with Rubio, although Thibs obviously tried it with Wiggins last year. Rubio's defender always sagged off quite a bit. When Rubio had the ball down the stretch, defenses knew he was much more likely to pass it, again making like difficult. Now, opposing bigs in particular have to keep an eye on Teague to watch out for the floater. So even if we keep the ball in Teague's hands down the stretch, we can threaten to pass or score with the ball, keeping defenses guessing.

I was mostly happy with Wiggins' handling and passing tonight, but to me the difference was Butler. Having that dual threat guy who can handle and pass, but also score is just a really nice asset to have on the wing in crunch time.

Yeah, Tim's point is well taken...we are 2-0 in close games so far. But I also think that Butler has more to do with that (and of course Crawford in the first win) than whoever is the PG. Some of us who question the PG swap wonder how Ricky would have thrived playing next to a guy like Butler, and we'll never know. All I know is I'm glad we have Butler...he's a gamer.

The whole spacing thing is hard to quantify. If you look at the last couple of Wolves wins, I don't believe we have magically solved the spacing issue with Teague's presence and Rubio's absence.

- Crawford's 3 against Utah. He had a guy right in his face. There was literally no space. In fact, that whole quarter we had to rely on his heroics versus some mythical offense where we had all this space to work with because of Teague's shooting. Utah's defense was stifling and we had to rely on a 37 year old dude to manufacture offense out of nothing.

- KAT's go-ahead bucket last night to make it 112-110: Butler ran into a brick wall in the lane, then he kicked it out to KAT, who in turn ran into a brick wall in the lane and threw up a soft runner over two Thunder players that went in. Again, where was all the space?

- Wiggins' game winner....Full court end of game play that would have probably been run the exact same way with Rubio here. Basically Teague wasn't even involved.

Rubio has figured out how to get the ball to people and create space in unique ways throughout his entire career. Coaches have also figured out ways to utilize Rubio in such a way as to mitigate his shooting.

I won't argue that Rubio is better than Teague (again, I put them in the same tier of PG), but this idea that we suddenly have more space to work with in crunch time and that's what has led to these two wins simply doesn't pass the eye test.

I don't know if spacing is the right answer to explain how we may improve. I think it is simpler. We now have a significantly better scorer at the point which seems to be fitting that most competitive teams have ball handlers who can score when you need a bucket. We were awful when it mattered for Rubio's whole time here. We have heard a variety of excuses on this board throughout that time from Rubio's complimentary personnel, coaching, and bad luck. But having a primary ball handler who is basically incapable of hitting a shot with pressure on seems counter-intuitive to clutch offense. We saw it in the game against Utah. In their biggest possession of the game after Crawford hit the three Rubio was incapable of getting around Teague and had no desire to shoot ending in a broken play to Gobert. To their credit it almost worked but how many times did we almost get there with Ricky? So familiar.

thedoper wrote:I don't know if spacing is the right answer to explain how we may improve. I think it is simpler. We now have a significantly better scorer at the point which seems to be fitting that most competitive teams have ball handlers who can score when you need a bucket. We were awful when it mattered for Rubio's whole time here. We have heard a variety of excuses on this board throughout that time from Rubio's complimentary personnel, coaching, and bad luck. But having a primary ball handler who is basically incapable of hitting a shot with pressure on seems counter-intuitive to clutch offense. We saw it in the game against Utah. In their biggest possession of the game after Crawford hit the three Rubio was incapable of getting around Teague and had no desire to shoot ending in a broken play to Gobert. To their credit it almost worked but how many times did we almost get there with Ricky? So familiar.

All of those "excuses" are legitimate. Also, Rubio HAS made big shots in crunch time. He just won't ever be the MAIN guy in crunch time. Just like Teague isn't the main guy in crunch time for us either. I hardly knew he was out there last night during the last 5 minutes. Also, Rubio made some huge defensive plays in crunch time, which seems to be overlooked.

Again, I'm not arguing that one guy is better than the other. I think Teague played a great game last night overall.

Here are the three reasons we'll be better this year: 1) Jimmy Butler, 2) No rookies in the rotation, and 3) Wig and KAT have another year under their belt.