Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:He is up to his old tricks. The Bulls have been 4-9 since his return, and he's shooting 40% and -.6.8 net rtg. Max him!! He beat the Wolves and Orlando.

...yet he's still a more efficient scorer than Wiggins because he has a 3-point shot and makes his free throws. Defensively is where Wig has the advantage but not even that is a real strength - it's just better comparatively (plus good health of course).

Zach should eventually get back to the super talented shooter/scorer that started to emerge last season, but I think it will take him a while to shake all the rust off. Whether he ever "gets it" on defense is TBD....

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:He is up to his old tricks. The Bulls have been 4-9 since his return, and he's shooting 40% and -.6.8 net rtg. Max him!! He beat the Wolves and Orlando.

...yet he's still a more efficient scorer than Wiggins because he has a 3-point shot and makes his free throws. Defensively is where Wig has the advantage but not even that is a real strength - it's just better comparatively (plus good health of course).

Zach should eventually get back to the super talented shooter/scorer that started to emerge last season, but I think it will take him a while to shake all the rust off. Whether he ever "gets it" on defense is TBD....

I think Zach will always have good numbers on offense, even this year he will pull it around. And people will see this and his athleticism and believe he's a valuable player. I just have never seen a situation where I felt he was making his team better on either side of the ball. When Zachs on fire it goes well, otherwise tough to watch. Reminds me of Crawford in a lot of ways now that I've seen and aged version of him for some time now.

It'll be interesting to see how both players develop.

We know what Wiggins looks like on a crappy team... and a solid team.
Thus far, we only know how LaVine looks on a crappy team.

Both guys are loaded with potential. And they're names/games will always be compared one way or another.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:It'll be interesting to see how both players develop.

We know what Wiggins looks like on a crappy team... and a solid team.
Thus far, we only know how LaVine looks on a crappy team.

Both guys are loaded with potential. And they're names/games will always be compared one way or another.

I agree. Certainly inspires some passion around here.

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:He is up to his old tricks. The Bulls have been 4-9 since his return, and he's shooting 40% and -.6.8 net rtg. Max him!! He beat the Wolves and Orlando.

...yet he's still a more efficient scorer than Wiggins because he has a 3-point shot and makes his free throws. Defensively is where Wig has the advantage but not even that is a real strength - it's just better comparatively (plus good health of course).

Zach should eventually get back to the super talented shooter/scorer that started to emerge last season, but I think it will take him a while to shake all the rust off. Whether he ever "gets it" on defense is TBD....

I think Zach will always have good numbers on offense, even this year he will pull it around. And people will see this and his athleticism and believe he's a valuable player. I just have never seen a situation where I felt he was making his team better on either side of the ball. When Zachs on fire it goes well, otherwise tough to watch. Reminds me of Crawford in a lot of ways now that I've seen and aged version of him for some time now.

The "bad" Zach as you described is like watching Wig 90% of the time. Tough on the ole eyes!

AbeVigodaLive wrote:It'll be interesting to see how both players develop.

Both guys are loaded with potential. And they're names/games will always be compared one way or another.

Not unlike a lot of Wolves choices in the past. i.e. Marbury vs Ray Allen, Randy Foye vs Brandon Roy, Love vs Mayo, Curry vs Flynn. One of these worked out well, the others not so much. I fear the choice of Wiggins over LaVine will go down as one of our worst... albeit not anywhere near as bad as Flynn!

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:He is up to his old tricks. The Bulls have been 4-9 since his return, and he's shooting 40% and -.6.8 net rtg. Max him!! He beat the Wolves and Orlando.

...yet he's still a more efficient scorer than Wiggins because he has a 3-point shot and makes his free throws. Defensively is where Wig has the advantage but not even that is a real strength - it's just better comparatively (plus good health of course).

Zach should eventually get back to the super talented shooter/scorer that started to emerge last season, but I think it will take him a while to shake all the rust off. Whether he ever "gets it" on defense is TBD....

I think Zach will always have good numbers on offense, even this year he will pull it around. And people will see this and his athleticism and believe he's a valuable player. I just have never seen a situation where I felt he was making his team better on either side of the ball. When Zachs on fire it goes well, otherwise tough to watch. Reminds me of Crawford in a lot of ways now that I've seen and aged version of him for some time now.

That's a pretty good comparison. But Zach's a better 3-point shooter faster with the ball than Crawford. Zach also appears to be a better rebounder and he's clearly a more explosive athlete. They they're are both fearless shooters and pure scorers. How good can Zach become defensively is a big question. Flip thought Zach would become a great defender. Time will tell. But what's great about Zach is that his floor is a more athletic and better 3-point shooting Jamaal Crawford. His ceiling is perennial allstar. We'll know in a couple years.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:He is up to his old tricks. The Bulls have been 4-9 since his return, and he's shooting 40% and -.6.8 net rtg. Max him!! He beat the Wolves and Orlando.

...yet he's still a more efficient scorer than Wiggins because he has a 3-point shot and makes his free throws. Defensively is where Wig has the advantage but not even that is a real strength - it's just better comparatively (plus good health of course).

Zach should eventually get back to the super talented shooter/scorer that started to emerge last season, but I think it will take him a while to shake all the rust off. Whether he ever "gets it" on defense is TBD....

I think Zach will always have good numbers on offense, even this year he will pull it around. And people will see this and his athleticism and believe he's a valuable player. I just have never seen a situation where I felt he was making his team better on either side of the ball. When Zachs on fire it goes well, otherwise tough to watch. Reminds me of Crawford in a lot of ways now that I've seen and aged version of him for some time now.

That's a pretty good comparison. But Zach's a better 3-point shooter faster with the ball than Crawford. Zach also appears to be a better rebounder and he's clearly a more explosive athlete. They they're are both fearless shooters and pure scorers. How good can Zach become defensively is a big question. Flip thought Zach would become a great defender. Time will tell. But what's great about Zach is that his floor is a more athletic and better 3-point shooting Jamaal Crawford. His ceiling is perennial allstar. We'll know in a couple years.

Zach absolutely has the edge in all those areas. But Jamal is far superior in team offensive concepts, sharing the ball, running an offense when needed. And Jamal is bad at these skills. If Zach is ever going to be a perennial all star with how much he likes to handle the rock, he needs better court awareness. This is why Flip and every coach wanted to force him into point with no success. Zach has been a disaster so far in his career in distributing as the primary ball handler. If this skill never improves he's a perennial 6th man.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:It'll be interesting to see how both players develop.

We know what Wiggins looks like on a crappy team... and a solid team.
Thus far, we only know how LaVine looks on a crappy team.

Both guys are loaded with potential. And they're names/games will always be compared one way or another.

Putting motor aside, I think the key potential-defining differences between the potential are ballhandling and 3-point shooting. Zach is a very good ballhandler and 3-point shooter while Andrew has a very bad handle by NBA wing standards and unreliable 3-point shot. I just can't see anyone with a handle as bad as Andrew's becoming a great NBA wing, especially without a reliable 3-point shot -- unless perhaps he has a relentless drive that gets him 8 rebounds, 2 steals and a block along with very good overall defensive metrics nearly every game. I haven't given up on Wiggins, but his poor handle and continuing inconsistency from both the line and the arc trouble me.

Has Zach ever gon 1 for 13 in a game?