Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:We had Prince and KG last year - both with rings on their fingers - along with Miller for the first part of the year. Yet none of these guys could prevent the abysmal mid-season slide (I think we went 4-21 for that stretch?).

Granted, we did eventually turn things around to finish the season with - whoopee! - 29 wins. Ironically, by then the veteran mentors were largely out of the rotation, if not completely out of the picture.

I mocked the "Garnett as mentor" narrative, but I think those guys actually helped a bit considering their brief stints and marginal on-court roles. I know the team added Towns, who played better than expected. But it was a 16-win team previously. And the coach/architect of the team died days before the start of the season.

I think those veterans helped steady the ship. And as we know, the team did show progress as the season went on. 29 wins was a nice step from 16 wins.

Was less than one season... and minimal roles... enough to create a team built on accountability and professionalism or whatever? Apparently not. This season, all that responsible falls on a chubby, loud 50+ year old guy who probably has next to nothing in common with any of these players. Assumption here: But do you think any of the young guys are seeking out Thibodeau to just discuss the game? Are they actively avoiding him when they can?

I think that's the #1 thing we're going to learn from this season. Hopefully, Thibodeau learns (already knows) it, too.

Don't forget another huge difference between '14-15 and '15-16 is that we had a healthy Ricky Rubio and we (eventually) ended the LaVine at PG experiment. Again, that had nothing to do with veteran mentorship or leadership, yet I would argue it was a big reason we won more games (along with KAT).

As for Thibs, it's a very valid question as to how he is connecting with his young charges. One of the things I felt was going to be a really positive factor heading into the season was that from the get-go, we were going with the same 5-man starting group that we ended last season with. And to this day, Thibs continues to stick with that group. Yet they have taken a fairly large step backwards from last year. I never would have expected that. I mean, that has GOT to not reflect well on Thibs, right?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:- The Wolves are in the middle of the 10th straight season where the "Expected Pythagorean W/L record" is better than the actual record. (Memphis has 6 straight seasons where it has exceeded its Expected wins.) Coincidence?

- 12 straight seasons without a playoff appearance. Tied for 2nd all time. The Clippers went 15 years.

- 11 straight seasons below .500. The Clippers went 12 years... twice. Sacramento went 16 years, but made the playoffs in there a couple of times.

- Last 4-game winning streak... 2012.

- .390 all-time winning percentage. That's the worst of all-time (Clippers surpassed the Wolves and are at .396)

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The most impressive stat to me is not having a 4 game winning streak in 4 years. That is mind boggling. So not only have we been terrible forever, we've never even had the satisfaction of being relatively "hot" for a 10 day stretch. If we ever become relevant, how much fun is that going to be for us diehards?

Hicks123 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:We had Prince and KG last year - both with rings on their fingers - along with Miller for the first part of the year. Yet none of these guys could prevent the abysmal mid-season slide (I think we went 4-21 for that stretch?).

Granted, we did eventually turn things around to finish the season with - whoopee! - 29 wins. Ironically, by then the veteran mentors were largely out of the rotation, if not completely out of the picture.

The huge difference is not simply adding "veteran" players, but adding/having PRODUCTIVE veteran players. Memphis is aided by having their top 5 guys being older vets, and having the ability to mix in youth and inexperience around them. The Spurs are the other team that does this so well. We all comment that seemingly every guy they draft turns to gold. The key, IMO, is that those players are drafted with a specific "fit" in mind. This can help a guy succeed very early when they have very specific goals, and don't have to step out of that box and contribute more than they are capable of. Dunn is a good example. We need him to BE a lot of things for this team....and he is failing in what should be expected fashion. If he was on Spurs or Memphis, they could easily live with his defensive chops and little else. That is simply not our reality at the moment.....a #5 pick as a situational defender?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:We had Prince and KG last year - both with rings on their fingers - along with Miller for the first part of the year. Yet none of these guys could prevent the abysmal mid-season slide (I think we went 4-21 for that stretch?).

Granted, we did eventually turn things around to finish the season with - whoopee! - 29 wins. Ironically, by then the veteran mentors were largely out of the rotation, if not completely out of the picture.

I mocked the "Garnett as mentor" narrative, but I think those guys actually helped a bit considering their brief stints and marginal on-court roles. I know the team added Towns, who played better than expected. But it was a 16-win team previously. And the coach/architect of the team died days before the start of the season.

I think those veterans helped steady the ship. And as we know, the team did show progress as the season went on. 29 wins was a nice step from 16 wins.

Was less than one season... and minimal roles... enough to create a team built on accountability and professionalism or whatever? Apparently not. This season, all that responsible falls on a chubby, loud 50+ year old guy who probably has next to nothing in common with any of these players. Assumption here: But do you think any of the young guys are seeking out Thibodeau to just discuss the game? Are they actively avoiding him when they can?

I think that's the #1 thing we're going to learn from this season. Hopefully, Thibodeau learns (already knows) it, too.

Don't forget another huge difference between '14-15 and '15-16 is that we had a healthy Ricky Rubio and we (eventually) ended the LaVine at PG experiment. Again, that had nothing to do with veteran mentorship or leadership, yet I would argue it was a big reason we won more games (along with KAT).

As for Thibs, it's a very valid question as to how he is connecting with his young charges. One of the things I felt was going to be a really positive factor heading into the season was that from the get-go, we were going with the same 5-man starting group that we ended last season with. And to this day, Thibs continues to stick with that group. Yet they have taken a fairly large step backwards from last year. I never would have expected that. I mean, that has GOT to not reflect well on Thibs, right?

Yeah, at some point it does.

I don't think anybody questions his knowledge based on his coaching resume. But the other part of coaching is reaching players. Obviously, some coaches are better at reaching younger players. Or star players. Or guys trying to stay in the NBA. Et al.

Can you imagine Phil Jackson trying to reach Michael Beasley or Rashad McCants without a Shaq, Kobe, Jordan or Pippen around? Likewise, what would Brett Brown be like in Cleveland instead of Philly?

There are still about 60 games left. I think it's going to be a rough 1st half of the season... but the 2nd half could offer hope for next season. The team SHOULD improve.

Yep... just one more season. Be patient, Wolves fans. You can't rush NBA mediocrity.



[Note: I've been waiting to do the research on the number of team "rebuilds" around the league over the past 12 seasons, and how many teams have been destroyed only to be built up again. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do it at all. It might be time...]

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:.

.

?

One of my big frustrations is how the Blazers have been able to basically have 3 re-builds in the same span we have been out of the playoffs.

Re-build 1: Roy and Aldridge
Re-build 2: Aldridge and Lillard
Re-build 3: Lillard and McCollum

Here they lost Roy to injury, Batum to free agency, and Aldridge to free agency. No big deal though. They just keep drafting well and finding ways to surround their key guys with productive complimentary pieces and bounce right back into the playoff mix. Now are they going to win a title with this roster? No, but they've had a hell of a lot more success than we've had in this time span!

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:We had Prince and KG last year - both with rings on their fingers - along with Miller for the first part of the year. Yet none of these guys could prevent the abysmal mid-season slide (I think we went 4-21 for that stretch?).

Granted, we did eventually turn things around to finish the season with - whoopee! - 29 wins. Ironically, by then the veteran mentors were largely out of the rotation, if not completely out of the picture.

I mocked the "Garnett as mentor" narrative, but I think those guys actually helped a bit considering their brief stints and marginal on-court roles. I know the team added Towns, who played better than expected. But it was a 16-win team previously. And the coach/architect of the team died days before the start of the season.

I think those veterans helped steady the ship. And as we know, the team did show progress as the season went on. 29 wins was a nice step from 16 wins.

Was less than one season... and minimal roles... enough to create a team built on accountability and professionalism or whatever? Apparently not. This season, all that responsible falls on a chubby, loud 50+ year old guy who probably has next to nothing in common with any of these players. Assumption here: But do you think any of the young guys are seeking out Thibodeau to just discuss the game? Are they actively avoiding him when they can?

I think that's the #1 thing we're going to learn from this season. Hopefully, Thibodeau learns (already knows) it, too.

Don't forget another huge difference between '14-15 and '15-16 is that we had a healthy Ricky Rubio and we (eventually) ended the LaVine at PG experiment. Again, that had nothing to do with veteran mentorship or leadership, yet I would argue it was a big reason we won more games (along with KAT).

As for Thibs, it's a very valid question as to how he is connecting with his young charges. One of the things I felt was going to be a really positive factor heading into the season was that from the get-go, we were going with the same 5-man starting group that we ended last season with. And to this day, Thibs continues to stick with that group. Yet they have taken a fairly large step backwards from last year. I never would have expected that. I mean, that has GOT to not reflect well on Thibs, right?

Yeah, at some point it does.

I don't think anybody questions his knowledge based on his coaching resume. But the other part of coaching is reaching players. Obviously, some coaches are better at reaching younger players. Or star players. Or guys trying to stay in the NBA. Et al.

Can you imagine Phil Jackson trying to reach Michael Beasley or Rashad McCants without a Shaq, Kobe, Jordan or Pippen around? Likewise, what would Brett Brown be like in Cleveland instead of Philly?

There are still about 60 games left. I think it's going to be a rough 1st half of the season... but the 2nd half could offer hope for next season. The team SHOULD improve.

Yep... just one more season. Be patient, Wolves fans. You can't rush NBA mediocrity.



[Note: I've been waiting to do the research on the number of team "rebuilds" around the league over the past 12 seasons, and how many teams have been destroyed only to be built up again. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do it at all. It might be time...]

One of my big frustrations is how the Blazers have been able to basically have 3 re-builds in the same span we have been out of the playoffs.

Re-build 1: Roy and Aldridge
Re-build 2: Aldridge and Lillard
Re-build 3: Lillard and McCollum

Here they lost Roy to injury, Batum to free agency, and Aldridge to free agency. No big deal though. They just keep drafting well and finding ways to surround their key guys with productive complimentary pieces and bounce right back into the playoff mix. Now are they going to win a title with this roster? No, but they've had a hell of a lot more success than we've had in this time span!