longstrangetrip wrote:Good stuff, Q. I like the recognition of the good work Aldrich has done this year. I feel very confident in our defense when he is on the court. I think the Thibs hire has been a disaster so far (doesn't mean he can't adapt and turn this around), but signing Cole at such a favorable contract is one good thing he has done.
Who knows if he could stabilize the defense if he was given a chance to start. I do know this...a team with as lousy a record as the Wolves needs to experiment to find the right combination. What's the downside? Try starting Cole for a few games to see what happens.
LST, I'm not so convinced he'll fare as well against opposing starting units. I do think he's done a good job in the role that was originally envisioned for him.
The other thing is I think Thibs wants to give these starters every opportunity to improve this season. He seems determined to make that happen. And if it doesn't happen, he'll know personnel is a problem and he'll look to address it in the offseason. Starting Cole Aldrich is likely not the answer.
Exactly. They didn't sign Dieng to a 4 year 63 million dollar contract (where he likely took less money) to give up on him as a starter 20 games into the season for Cole Aldrich. It would also be kinda bad to tell Dieng "Hey man thanks for taking less money a few weeks ago so we can build this team but we are gonna start Cole for a few games..." Dieng IMO certainly hasn't played bad enough to lose his starting spot and as it's been mentioned Thibs plays him against centers and Dieng does a lot of dirty work. I won't be shocked to see him come around in defense and do a lot of what we have seen Aldrich doing the last few games. Plus at some point he will probably increase his efficiency offensively as he and others settle into the offense.
The problem Monster is that Dieng can't do the things Aldrich does. He's simply not big and thick enough. On the other hand, Aldrich is extremely limited offensively and struggles to defend without fouling.
We'll see how things progress, but based on how Thibs is using KAT as primarily a PF, it feels like we may ultimately need a better version of Aldrich as our starting Center. I'm not sure if any of those exist at a price point we're willing to pay!
Q12543 wrote:The problem Monster is that Dieng can't do the things Aldrich does. He's simply not big and thick enough. On the other hand, Aldrich is extremely limited offensively and struggles to defend without fouling.
We'll see how things progress, but based on how Thibs is using KAT as primarily a PF, it feels like we may ultimately need a better version of Aldrich as our starting Center. I'm not sure if any of those exist at a price point we're willing to pay!
Isn't Dieng at least as good of a player as guys the Spurs put next to Duncan for years? That's one angle.
Another angle is if he isn't good enough they could find a hidden gem and 2nd rounders are great for that. Of course it's VERY likely the Wolves won't have one this year but maybe they can buy one or maybe they will acquire a pick in a trade this season.
Another option is signing a FA player out of Europe. I've said it for years if this team is going to be a true top level organization it has to find some legits NBA players from something other than lottery picks. I feel somewhat good about that at this point partly because I have faith in Thibs and his staff creating a good environment and developing guys brought in to their program.
Q12543 wrote:The problem Monster is that Dieng can't do the things Aldrich does. He's simply not big and thick enough. On the other hand, Aldrich is extremely limited offensively and struggles to defend without fouling.
We'll see how things progress, but based on how Thibs is using KAT as primarily a PF, it feels like we may ultimately need a better version of Aldrich as our starting Center. I'm not sure if any of those exist at a price point we're willing to pay!
Isn't Dieng at least as good of a player as guys the Spurs put next to Duncan for years? That's one angle.
Another angle is if he isn't good enough they could find a hidden gem and 2nd rounders are great for that. Of course it's VERY likely the Wolves won't have one this year but maybe they can buy one or maybe they will acquire a pick in a trade this season.
Another option is signing a FA player out of Europe. I've said it for years if this team is going to be a true top level organization it has to find some legits NBA players from something other than lottery picks. I feel somewhat good about that at this point partly because I have faith in Thibs and his staff creating a good environment and developing guys brought in to their program.
For sure Dieng is as good as some of those guys, if not better. But here is the problem. When is KAT going to start defending like Duncan did? That's the problem right now. Also, Duncan could play PF early in his career and still be near the basket. As his career progressed and more PFs started playing on the perimeter, Duncan became a full-time Center and was able to stay near the basket, where he was a master at positioning.
Q12543 wrote:The problem Monster is that Dieng can't do the things Aldrich does. He's simply not big and thick enough. On the other hand, Aldrich is extremely limited offensively and struggles to defend without fouling.
We'll see how things progress, but based on how Thibs is using KAT as primarily a PF, it feels like we may ultimately need a better version of Aldrich as our starting Center. I'm not sure if any of those exist at a price point we're willing to pay!
Isn't Dieng at least as good of a player as guys the Spurs put next to Duncan for years? That's one angle.
Another angle is if he isn't good enough they could find a hidden gem and 2nd rounders are great for that. Of course it's VERY likely the Wolves won't have one this year but maybe they can buy one or maybe they will acquire a pick in a trade this season.
Another option is signing a FA player out of Europe. I've said it for years if this team is going to be a true top level organization it has to find some legits NBA players from something other than lottery picks. I feel somewhat good about that at this point partly because I have faith in Thibs and his staff creating a good environment and developing guys brought in to their program.
For sure Dieng is as good as some of those guys, if not better. But here is the problem. When is KAT going to start defending like Duncan did? That's the problem right now. Also, Duncan could play PF early in his career and still be near the basket. As his career progressed and more PFs started playing on the perimeter, Duncan became a full-time Center and was able to stay near the basket, where he was a master at positioning.
Tim Duncan was one of the game's best defensive players for nearly two decades.
Q12543 wrote:The problem Monster is that Dieng can't do the things Aldrich does. He's simply not big and thick enough. On the other hand, Aldrich is extremely limited offensively and struggles to defend without fouling.
We'll see how things progress, but based on how Thibs is using KAT as primarily a PF, it feels like we may ultimately need a better version of Aldrich as our starting Center. I'm not sure if any of those exist at a price point we're willing to pay!
Isn't Dieng at least as good of a player as guys the Spurs put next to Duncan for years? That's one angle.
Another angle is if he isn't good enough they could find a hidden gem and 2nd rounders are great for that. Of course it's VERY likely the Wolves won't have one this year but maybe they can buy one or maybe they will acquire a pick in a trade this season.
Another option is signing a FA player out of Europe. I've said it for years if this team is going to be a true top level organization it has to find some legits NBA players from something other than lottery picks. I feel somewhat good about that at this point partly because I have faith in Thibs and his staff creating a good environment and developing guys brought in to their program.
For sure Dieng is as good as some of those guys, if not better. But here is the problem. When is KAT going to start defending like Duncan did? That's the problem right now. Also, Duncan could play PF early in his career and still be near the basket. As his career progressed and more PFs started playing on the perimeter, Duncan became a full-time Center and was able to stay near the basket, where he was a master at positioning.
Tim Duncan was one of the game's best defensive players for nearly two decades.
Exactly. He was a legit two-way star, and was still a defensive star up until retirement. KAT right now is damn near an offensive star, but the defense is lacking. We can't assume he will ever be as good as KG or Duncan or even Paul Milsap for that matter. So knowing that KAT isn't going anywhere, what other options exist other than potentially replacing Gorgui with a more defensive oriented paint presence?
longstrangetrip wrote:Good stuff, Q. I like the recognition of the good work Aldrich has done this year. I feel very confident in our defense when he is on the court. I think the Thibs hire has been a disaster so far (doesn't mean he can't adapt and turn this around), but signing Cole at such a favorable contract is one good thing he has done.
Who knows if he could stabilize the defense if he was given a chance to start. I do know this...a team with as lousy a record as the Wolves needs to experiment to find the right combination. What's the downside? Try starting Cole for a few games to see what happens.
LST, I'm not so convinced he'll fare as well against opposing starting units. I do think he's done a good job in the role that was originally envisioned for him.
The other thing is I think Thibs wants to give these starters every opportunity to improve this season. He seems determined to make that happen. And if it doesn't happen, he'll know personnel is a problem and he'll look to address it in the offseason. Starting Cole Aldrich is likely not the answer.
I agree that we don't know if he would fare as well as a starter, but he just might. And we do know this...despite Thibs' reputation as a genius defensive coach, our starting lineup continues to be one of the worst in the league defensively...and defense wins games. There's plenty of offensive fire power in our starting lineup, but we lack toughness and rim protection...two things that we know Cole provides. Why not give him a chance? I would also argue that as limited as his offense is, Cole was productive last year with a pick and roll PG who could spoon feed him...and Ricky fits that bill a lot better than Kris. I love Gorgui, but let's face it...he's never been considered a consensus sure-fire starter by most of us on this board. It's not like we would be demoting Wilt Chamberlain if we started Aldrich.
Maybe it helps and maybe it doesn't, but there's no risk in experimenting with a team winning as infrequently as the Wolves are. The narrative that this starting lineup will suddenly "get" Thibs' defensive "system" (just what is this system anyway, and how does it differ so much from Mitchell's...I don't see it, and I don't think anyone else does either) seems more and more far-fetched with each passing game. Let's move some bulk and toughness into the starting lineup and see if it works.
longstrangetrip wrote:Good stuff, Q. I like the recognition of the good work Aldrich has done this year. I feel very confident in our defense when he is on the court. I think the Thibs hire has been a disaster so far (doesn't mean he can't adapt and turn this around), but signing Cole at such a favorable contract is one good thing he has done.
Who knows if he could stabilize the defense if he was given a chance to start. I do know this...a team with as lousy a record as the Wolves needs to experiment to find the right combination. What's the downside? Try starting Cole for a few games to see what happens.
LST, I'm not so convinced he'll fare as well against opposing starting units. I do think he's done a good job in the role that was originally envisioned for him.
The other thing is I think Thibs wants to give these starters every opportunity to improve this season. He seems determined to make that happen. And if it doesn't happen, he'll know personnel is a problem and he'll look to address it in the offseason. Starting Cole Aldrich is likely not the answer.
I agree that we don't know if he would fare as well as a starter, but he just might. And we do know this...despite Thibs' reputation as a genius defensive coach, our starting lineup continues to be one of the worst in the league defensively...and defense wins games. There's plenty of offensive fire power in our starting lineup, but we lack toughness and rim protection...two things that we know Cole provides. Why not give him a chance? I would also argue that as limited as his offense is, Cole was productive last year with a pick and roll PG who could spoon feed him...and Ricky fits that bill a lot better than Kris. I love Gorgui, but let's face it...he's never been considered a consensus sure-fire starter by most of us on this board. It's not like we would be demoting Wilt Chamberlain if we started Aldrich.
Maybe it helps and maybe it doesn't, but there's no risk in experimenting with a team winning as infrequently as the Wolves are. The narrative that this starting lineup will suddenly "get" Thibs' defensive "system" (just what is this system anyway, and how does it differ so much from Mitchell's...I don't see it, and I don't think anyone else does either) seems more and more far-fetched with each passing game. Let's move some bulk and toughness into the starting lineup and see if it works.
Don't necessarily disagree LST, but I just don't see it happening yet. Let's see where things are at in another 10-20 games. By then, Thibs may be fed up enough to shake things up, but my guess is he's pretty stubborn.
I think it goes without saying that he's encountered the biggest challenge in his coaching career....how to get a bunch of shiny new Ferraris to start acting like F150s. I think he connects much more with the 2nd unit guys.
longstrangetrip wrote:Good stuff, Q. I like the recognition of the good work Aldrich has done this year. I feel very confident in our defense when he is on the court. I think the Thibs hire has been a disaster so far (doesn't mean he can't adapt and turn this around), but signing Cole at such a favorable contract is one good thing he has done.
Who knows if he could stabilize the defense if he was given a chance to start. I do know this...a team with as lousy a record as the Wolves needs to experiment to find the right combination. What's the downside? Try starting Cole for a few games to see what happens.
LST, I'm not so convinced he'll fare as well against opposing starting units. I do think he's done a good job in the role that was originally envisioned for him.
The other thing is I think Thibs wants to give these starters every opportunity to improve this season. He seems determined to make that happen. And if it doesn't happen, he'll know personnel is a problem and he'll look to address it in the offseason. Starting Cole Aldrich is likely not the answer.
I agree that we don't know if he would fare as well as a starter, but he just might. And we do know this...despite Thibs' reputation as a genius defensive coach, our starting lineup continues to be one of the worst in the league defensively...and defense wins games. There's plenty of offensive fire power in our starting lineup, but we lack toughness and rim protection...two things that we know Cole provides. Why not give him a chance? I would also argue that as limited as his offense is, Cole was productive last year with a pick and roll PG who could spoon feed him...and Ricky fits that bill a lot better than Kris. I love Gorgui, but let's face it...he's never been considered a consensus sure-fire starter by most of us on this board. It's not like we would be demoting Wilt Chamberlain if we started Aldrich.
Maybe it helps and maybe it doesn't, but there's no risk in experimenting with a team winning as infrequently as the Wolves are. The narrative that this starting lineup will suddenly "get" Thibs' defensive "system" (just what is this system anyway, and how does it differ so much from Mitchell's...I don't see it, and I don't think anyone else does either) seems more and more far-fetched with each passing game. Let's move some bulk and toughness into the starting lineup and see if it works.
Don't necessarily disagree LST, but I just don't see it happening yet. Let's see where things are at in another 10-20 games. By then, Thibs may be fed up enough to shake things up, but my guess is he's pretty stubborn.
I think it goes without saying that he's encountered the biggest challenge in his coaching career....how to get a bunch of shiny new Ferraris to start acting like F150s. I think he connects much more with the 2nd unit guys.
Yeah, not as defensive as our previous coach, but in my observation equally as stubborn. I agree that this has been an eye-opening experience for Thibs. In his successful stints in Boston and Chicago, he was blessed with veteran teams that he seemed to connect with well...and he was quite successful. This is different though, and I think we are learning that those of us who were worried about how a near-60 throwback coach would mix with a bunch of near-teenagers were unfortunately prescient...I think only the blind would say "so far, so good". I think you're right that Thibs' stubbornness will keep him throwing the same guys out there, believing that it is their inability to play his way that is hurting them, and that eventually they will get it. I hope not, because I need to see more experimentation rather than just throwing the same crap against the wall every night hoping it eventually smells good. It seems like Thibs experiments only when necessity demands it (Bazz and Zach out...has to start Belly at SF. Top two PGs flailing...has to play Tyus in the 4th). What's frustrating for me is that the Wolves seem to be at their best when Thibs is forced by injury or ineptitude to move away from his ideal plan...doesn't make me feel very optimistic about his judgement going forward.
Q12543 wrote:The problem Monster is that Dieng can't do the things Aldrich does. He's simply not big and thick enough. On the other hand, Aldrich is extremely limited offensively and struggles to defend without fouling.
We'll see how things progress, but based on how Thibs is using KAT as primarily a PF, it feels like we may ultimately need a better version of Aldrich as our starting Center. I'm not sure if any of those exist at a price point we're willing to pay!
Isn't Dieng at least as good of a player as guys the Spurs put next to Duncan for years? That's one angle.
Another angle is if he isn't good enough they could find a hidden gem and 2nd rounders are great for that. Of course it's VERY likely the Wolves won't have one this year but maybe they can buy one or maybe they will acquire a pick in a trade this season.
Another option is signing a FA player out of Europe. I've said it for years if this team is going to be a true top level organization it has to find some legits NBA players from something other than lottery picks. I feel somewhat good about that at this point partly because I have faith in Thibs and his staff creating a good environment and developing guys brought in to their program.
For sure Dieng is as good as some of those guys, if not better. But here is the problem. When is KAT going to start defending like Duncan did? That's the problem right now. Also, Duncan could play PF early in his career and still be near the basket. As his career progressed and more PFs started playing on the perimeter, Duncan became a full-time Center and was able to stay near the basket, where he was a master at positioning.
Tim Duncan was one of the game's best defensive players for nearly two decades.
Exactly. He was a legit two-way star, and was still a defensive star up until retirement. KAT right now is damn near an offensive star, but the defense is lacking. We can't assume he will ever be as good as KG or Duncan or even Paul Milsap for that matter. So knowing that KAT isn't going anywhere, what other options exist other than potentially replacing Gorgui with a more defensive oriented paint presence?
Well...um it is 20 games into Towns 2nd season. Timmy D was still at Wake Forest going to college classes at this age. I don't want to give Towns too much of an easy out or saying he is going to be as good defensively as Duncan (which is obviously a really high bar) but maybe we should take a wee bit more time before we know what we have defensively from Towns and for that matter the team in general?
