Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:I said Rubio would kill his team in the playoffs which we might get to see this year. They still have to make it and it's hard for me to believe they and the trailblazers can keep up this level of winning. We'll see.

I agree that the Blazers and Utah should come back to earth at some point soon. Looking at their respective rosters, they really do seem to be playing over their heads. Good coaching? Yes. But I just don't think either team has the talent to sustain their recent level of play.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Mitchell, mostly on the defensive end, and I had really come around on Rubio by the end of his tenure here.

But to me, so much of what makes the Jazz so great can be tied to Gobert. They got hot after he came back, if I recall. And I remember watching our game against them when he was playing this year and he just really affected our offense in such a significant way.

Yes, Gobert is huge for them. But a key to their season was the way they've stayed afloat when he's been out. But yes, Gobert's rim protection is game-changing. He's another guy, like Giannis, who Flip could have drafted in 2014. :(

I don't know if they stayed afloat without Gobert. They were 9-17 without him this year. Making them 30-13 with him. Huge difference. They are 20-4 since Gobert return from his last injury.

The huge thing is when he came back they had a really tough part of their schedule and some players like Ingles and Rubio just went off with their 3 pt shot. Ingles shot like 56% from 3 during their winning streak and Rubio was on fire after having a terrible year. They destroyed their tough part of their schedule with unrealistic shooting numbers. Now they have a super easy schedule so they got hot at the right time. I still really want them in the playoffs. But good for them.

Thanks, Geek. I didn't realize their record without Gobert was that bad. In any event, there's no escaping the fact that Gobert is the key to their team. Imaging if we had him instead of Gorgui.

game is much easier if you have an elite defending big.

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Mitchell, mostly on the defensive end, and I had really come around on Rubio by the end of his tenure here.

But to me, so much of what makes the Jazz so great can be tied to Gobert. They got hot after he came back, if I recall. And I remember watching our game against them when he was playing this year and he just really affected our offense in such a significant way.

Yes, Gobert is huge for them. But a key to their season was the way they've stayed afloat when he's been out. But yes, Gobert's rim protection is game-changing. He's another guy, like Giannis, who Flip could have drafted in 2014. :(

I don't know if they stayed afloat without Gobert. They were 9-17 without him this year. Making them 30-13 with him. Huge difference. They are 20-4 since Gobert return from his last injury.

The huge thing is when he came back they had a really tough part of their schedule and some players like Ingles and Rubio just went off with their 3 pt shot. Ingles shot like 56% from 3 during their winning streak and Rubio was on fire after having a terrible year. They destroyed their tough part of their schedule with unrealistic shooting numbers. Now they have a super easy schedule so they got hot at the right time. I still really want them in the playoffs. But good for them.

Thanks, Geek. I didn't realize their record without Gobert was that bad. In any event, there's no escaping the fact that Gobert is the key to their team. Imaging if we had him instead of Gorgui.

Ehh, I think it worked out for the best in the end. I fear if we had drafted Gobert and he showed his defensive prowess in the second half of his rookie season, we would have felt like we were set at the center position and probably would have D'Angelo Russell right now instead of Karl-Anthony Towns.

I understand what you mean, though. Tough to lose out on great players when you had a chance to snag him.

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Mitchell, mostly on the defensive end, and I had really come around on Rubio by the end of his tenure here.

But to me, so much of what makes the Jazz so great can be tied to Gobert. They got hot after he came back, if I recall. And I remember watching our game against them when he was playing this year and he just really affected our offense in such a significant way.

Yes, Gobert is huge for them. But a key to their season was the way they've stayed afloat when he's been out. But yes, Gobert's rim protection is game-changing. He's another guy, like Giannis, who Flip could have drafted in 2014. :(

I don't know if they stayed afloat without Gobert. They were 9-17 without him this year. Making them 30-13 with him. Huge difference. They are 20-4 since Gobert return from his last injury.

The huge thing is when he came back they had a really tough part of their schedule and some players like Ingles and Rubio just went off with their 3 pt shot. Ingles shot like 56% from 3 during their winning streak and Rubio was on fire after having a terrible year. They destroyed their tough part of their schedule with unrealistic shooting numbers. Now they have a super easy schedule so they got hot at the right time. I still really want them in the playoffs. But good for them.

Thanks, Geek. I didn't realize their record without Gobert was that bad. In any event, there's no escaping the fact that Gobert is the key to their team. Imaging if we had him instead of Gorgui.

Ehh, I think it worked out for the best in the end. I fear if we had drafted Gobert and he showed his defensive prowess in the second half of his rookie season, we would have felt like we were set at the center position and probably would have D'Angelo Russell right now instead of Karl-Anthony Towns.

I understand what you mean, though. Tough to lose out on great players when you had a chance to snag him.

The Gobert and Giannis hindsight plays are too hard to project the team that we have today. Getting either or both of them likely means Love is still here and we would have been picking much later than #1 to get Towns.

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Mitchell, mostly on the defensive end, and I had really come around on Rubio by the end of his tenure here.

But to me, so much of what makes the Jazz so great can be tied to Gobert. They got hot after he came back, if I recall. And I remember watching our game against them when he was playing this year and he just really affected our offense in such a significant way.

Yes, Gobert is huge for them. But a key to their season was the way they've stayed afloat when he's been out. But yes, Gobert's rim protection is game-changing. He's another guy, like Giannis, who Flip could have drafted in 2014. :(

I don't know if they stayed afloat without Gobert. They were 9-17 without him this year. Making them 30-13 with him. Huge difference. They are 20-4 since Gobert return from his last injury.

The huge thing is when he came back they had a really tough part of their schedule and some players like Ingles and Rubio just went off with their 3 pt shot. Ingles shot like 56% from 3 during their winning streak and Rubio was on fire after having a terrible year. They destroyed their tough part of their schedule with unrealistic shooting numbers. Now they have a super easy schedule so they got hot at the right time. I still really want them in the playoffs. But good for them.

Thanks, Geek. I didn't realize their record without Gobert was that bad. In any event, there's no escaping the fact that Gobert is the key to their team. Imaging if we had him instead of Gorgui.

I think the main point is we shouldn't get rid of first round picks only if we are adding an all star level talent. I mean the Jazz built their team on a late lottery pick (Hayward), Late 1st in Gobert, and trading a late lottery player (lyles) and a pick in the Wolves range this year and they acquired the possible ROY in Mitchell.

The Warriors got Green in the 2nd round.

The Rockets got Capela in the late first. They also traded former first round picks Decker and Harrell who are limited in a package for an all NBA player in Paul.

Spurs built their dynasty on later first and 2nd round picks, Leonard, Parker, Ginobili, Green, etc...

Raptors built one of the best benches in the NBA on late round picks.

Celtics are one of the few teams that didn't get "lucky" and build a core on later first even though they do play some guys off the bench in those roles.

For use to become a legit contender we need to continue to develop Towns and Wiggins. Then we will probably need to get lucky on the picks in the upcoming year. We need young cheap contracts to fill out roles and in all honestly we need to hit the jackpot with one of them. All of the teams contending got "lucky" with a late pick one way or another.

Gobert is an absolute star and proving that this year. Without him they're garbage and played like it. Mitchell was a great draft but this team is all about Rudy.

We are going to meet the Jazz in the playoffs as a 5/4 seed

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Mitchell, mostly on the defensive end, and I had really come around on Rubio by the end of his tenure here.

But to me, so much of what makes the Jazz so great can be tied to Gobert. They got hot after he came back, if I recall. And I remember watching our game against them when he was playing this year and he just really affected our offense in such a significant way.

Yes, Gobert is huge for them. But a key to their season was the way they've stayed afloat when he's been out. But yes, Gobert's rim protection is game-changing. He's another guy, like Giannis, who Flip could have drafted in 2014. :(

I don't know if they stayed afloat without Gobert. They were 9-17 without him this year. Making them 30-13 with him. Huge difference. They are 20-4 since Gobert return from his last injury.

The huge thing is when he came back they had a really tough part of their schedule and some players like Ingles and Rubio just went off with their 3 pt shot. Ingles shot like 56% from 3 during their winning streak and Rubio was on fire after having a terrible year. They destroyed their tough part of their schedule with unrealistic shooting numbers. Now they have a super easy schedule so they got hot at the right time. I still really want them in the playoffs. But good for them.

Thanks, Geek. I didn't realize their record without Gobert was that bad. In any event, there's no escaping the fact that Gobert is the key to their team. Imaging if we had him instead of Gorgui.

Ehh, I think it worked out for the best in the end. I fear if we had drafted Gobert and he showed his defensive prowess in the second half of his rookie season, we would have felt like we were set at the center position and probably would have D'Angelo Russell right now instead of Karl-Anthony Towns.

I understand what you mean, though. Tough to lose out on great players when you had a chance to snag him.

The Gobert and Giannis hindsight plays are too hard to project the team that we have today. Getting either or both of them likely means Love is still here and we would have been picking much later than #1 to get Towns.

Love would have still been traded. He wanted out and Flip didn't want him to walk with nothing in return. But Cam might be right that we might have missed out on Towns.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Mitchell, mostly on the defensive end, and I had really come around on Rubio by the end of his tenure here.

But to me, so much of what makes the Jazz so great can be tied to Gobert. They got hot after he came back, if I recall. And I remember watching our game against them when he was playing this year and he just really affected our offense in such a significant way.

Yes, Gobert is huge for them. But a key to their season was the way they've stayed afloat when he's been out. But yes, Gobert's rim protection is game-changing. He's another guy, like Giannis, who Flip could have drafted in 2014. :(

I don't know if they stayed afloat without Gobert. They were 9-17 without him this year. Making them 30-13 with him. Huge difference. They are 20-4 since Gobert return from his last injury.

The huge thing is when he came back they had a really tough part of their schedule and some players like Ingles and Rubio just went off with their 3 pt shot. Ingles shot like 56% from 3 during their winning streak and Rubio was on fire after having a terrible year. They destroyed their tough part of their schedule with unrealistic shooting numbers. Now they have a super easy schedule so they got hot at the right time. I still really want them in the playoffs. But good for them.

Thanks, Geek. I didn't realize their record without Gobert was that bad. In any event, there's no escaping the fact that Gobert is the key to their team. Imaging if we had him instead of Gorgui.

I think the main point is we shouldn't get rid of first round picks only if we are adding an all star level talent. I mean the Jazz built their team on a late lottery pick (Hayward), Late 1st in Gobert, and trading a late lottery player (lyles) and a pick in the Wolves range this year and they acquired the possible ROY in Mitchell.

The Warriors got Green in the 2nd round.

The Rockets got Capela in the late first. They also traded former first round picks Decker and Harrell who are limited in a package for an all NBA player in Paul.

Spurs built their dynasty on later first and 2nd round picks, Leonard, Parker, Ginobili, Green, etc...

Raptors built one of the best benches in the NBA on late round picks.

Celtics are one of the few teams that didn't get "lucky" and build a core on later first even though they do play some guys off the bench in those roles.

For use to become a legit contender we need to continue to develop Towns and Wiggins. Then we will probably need to get lucky on the picks in the upcoming year. We need young cheap contracts to fill out roles and in all honestly we need to hit the jackpot with one of them. All of the teams contending got "lucky" with a late pick one way or another.

Absolutely right, Geek!! Making the most out of draft picks is so critical to the success of most NBA franchises; more than anything, it separates the top organizations from the mediocre and bad ones. As much as I liked Flip, he really made some terrible mistakes with picks, including the following which I criticized at the time so this isn't just hindsight:

1. Trading down in the 2014 draft instead of taking McCollum.

2. Taking Bazz instead of Giannis with one of the two picks we got for McCollum

3. Selling for cash our other 2014 1st round pick (I think #26), which we could have used to take Gobert.

4. Trading a future first rounder for A. Payne, an unproven 2nd year player at the time who couldn't even get on the floor with the Atlanta Hawks. It would be nice to have that pick in addition to the OKC pick, which could have potentially given us a chance to trade up a bit or maybe use one as sweetener for a Gorgui trade, etc.

Thibs has had two drafts so far. I think he made a mistake taking Dunn instead of Murray, but I can't get too down on him for that since Dunn because part of the package that landed Butler. And I still think Dunn will be a good player. I do think Thibs blew it with the pick we got in the Butler deal. I can't proclaim Patton a bust, but I have serious doubts about him. I still maintain as I did then that John Collins was the pick. Using pure hindsight, it's obvious to me that Kuzma would have been the best pick.