Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Wiggys shot selection has always been suspect, but he's missing some of these shots badly.

I wonder if the extra energy he is expending on the defensive end is effecting his offense.

The pull ups and catch and shoot look fine, mechanically. It's when he dribbles into defenders and is met with resistance. He goes bonkers making 3 or 4 Kobe-type moves and then may miss the rim all together. So yes anyone would be exhausted trying to do that, it's just weird though. Overall the guy must have amazing fitness, Thibs has continued to play him a lot this year.

Sorry, but the "Thibs works him so hard" angle just doesn't work for me, as if other starting wings like Paul George or Kris Middleton or Bradley Beal have minimal responsibilities. Heck, it was Butler always checking the best wing when Jimmy was healthy, not Wiggins. Yet Wiggins is as inefficient as ever with Butler in the lineup and doing a bunch of heavy lifting for the team.

I'm not trying to assert that Thibs is working Wiggins too hard. Wiggins is working himself too hard on offense and taking bad shots. I think he has plenty of energy to get good shots, he's just using it in inefficient ways. He's probably overcompensating for not being the focal point of the offense anymore.

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Wiggys shot selection has always been suspect, but he's missing some of these shots badly.

I wonder if the extra energy he is expending on the defensive end is effecting his offense.

The pull ups and catch and shoot look fine, mechanically. It's when he dribbles into defenders and is met with resistance. He goes bonkers making 3 or 4 Kobe-type moves and then may miss the rim all together. So yes anyone would be exhausted trying to do that, it's just weird though. Overall the guy must have amazing fitness, Thibs has continued to play him a lot this year.

Sorry, but the "Thibs works him so hard" angle just doesn't work for me, as if other starting wings like Paul George or Kris Middleton or Bradley Beal have minimal responsibilities. Heck, it was Butler always checking the best wing when Jimmy was healthy, not Wiggins. Yet Wiggins is as inefficient as ever with Butler in the lineup and doing a bunch of heavy lifting for the team.

I'm not trying to assert that Thibs is working Wiggins too hard. Wiggins is working himself too hard on offense and taking bad shots. I think he has plenty of energy to get good shots, he's just using it in inefficient ways. He's probably overcompensating for not being the focal point of the offense anymore.

He was inefficient when he was the focal point. It makes no difference. I guess he's gone from being somewhat inefficient to terribly inefficient. Either way, it's not good. The less touches he gets on offense as a ball handler, the better in my opinion.

Great report, Doper.

I'm glad you got to see first hand what KAT goes through every game. He doesn't complain or carp more than a lot of players, so I still don't understand the treatment he gets from the officials. But the Wolves overall have been getting the short end from officials all season. Someone mentioned that KAT's good defensively when he makes the effort. My counter, and I'm sure you noticed it, is that KAT always gives great effort. His problem is makes too many dumb mistakes defensively. I'm not worried about that because it will work itself out through experience. As you noted, KAT and Butler are the keys to this team.

I've noticed the same defensive effort you saw out of Wiggins. As you noted, he's still not particularly good on 50-50 ball hustle plays, but that seems to be an awareness issue more than an effort issue for him. Offensively, I don't think his problem is strength. I think his main problem is his poor handle. Defenses are on to his poor handle and he knows it. As a result, he can't get to the hole like he used to. So he ends up pulling up for horrible contested fade-away jumpers which he's terrible at. I don't have an answer for him on the offensive end because at his age his handle won't improve much. He'd help his offense a lot if he would improve his perimeter shooting off the dribble, especially his 3-point shot, but after 4 seasons I don't expect to see a lot of improvement there. It's really up to the head coach to make better use of Andrew. Having Andrew dribble drive from the top of the key against a set defense is not the answer. More fast breaks and an overall quicker attack before the defense gets set, better floor spacing with more of Wiggins cutting to the basket, and more post-ups using Wiggins' length would all help Wiggins offensively.

I'm glad you got to see good Teague, hitting his shots, not dribble quite as much and playing with more pace. Watching good Teague is a treat. Watching bad Teague is painful. And I'm glad you got to see good Taj. Of course, there is not bad Taj. :). I just love that guy. You saw a somewhat different Crawford I think as he seemed to dribble a bit less and pass a lot more.

Overall, this was a critical win and it's great you could be there.

I think teams have changed how they guard Wiggins and he just hasn't adjusted properly yet. Guys used to play right on him so when he drove he could spin around them or just get by them in general and get a decent look at the rim. Now when I watch they start a foot or 2 back and immediately backpedal when he drives so they are constantly in front of him without being on his hip. Now he's spinning and trying to dribble around guys in much better position to stop that and he just chucks up garbage contested stuff that he only gets off because of his length. He needs to learn the Jimmy jumpers that aren't full 18-20 ft mid range jumpers. Get the defender down to the block and spin out or jump step back to a nice easy 10 ft jumper. That's what stops them from being able to just run backwards every time you try to drive and wall up once you get to the hoop. I think guys playing off him has really stiffled his drives because he just doesn't know how to attack them yet. I also don't want to take the ball out of his hands because he's been making some really good kick out passes lately to 3pt shooters that good offenses are built on. Teach him how to attack what the defense is giving you and he will get back to where he was. He just hasn't adjusted yet.

lipoli390 wrote:Great report, Doper.

I'm glad you got to see first hand what KAT goes through every game. He doesn't complain or carp more than a lot of players, so I still don't understand the treatment he gets from the officials. But the Wolves overall have been getting the short end from officials all season. Someone mentioned that KAT's good defensively when he makes the effort. My counter, and I'm sure you noticed it, is that KAT always gives great effort. His problem is makes too many dumb mistakes defensively. I'm not worried about that because it will work itself out through experience. As you noted, KAT and Butler are the keys to this team.

I've noticed the same defensive effort you saw out of Wiggins. As you noted, he's still not particularly good on 50-50 ball hustle plays, but that seems to be an awareness issue more than an effort issue for him. Offensively, I don't think his problem is strength. I think his main problem is his poor handle. Defenses are on to his poor handle and he knows it. As a result, he can't get to the hole like he used to. So he ends up pulling up for horrible contested fade-away jumpers which he's terrible at. I don't have an answer for him on the offensive end because at his age his handle won't improve much. He'd help his offense a lot if he would improve his perimeter shooting off the dribble, especially his 3-point shot, but after 4 seasons I don't expect to see a lot of improvement there. It's really up to the head coach to make better use of Andrew. Having Andrew dribble drive from the top of the key against a set defense is not the answer. More fast breaks and an overall quicker attack before the defense gets set, better floor spacing with more of Wiggins cutting to the basket, and more post-ups using Wiggins' length would all help Wiggins offensively.

I'm glad you got to see good Teague, hitting his shots, not dribble quite as much and playing with more pace. Watching good Teague is a treat. Watching bad Teague is painful. And I'm glad you got to see good Taj. Of course, there is not bad Taj. :). I just love that guy. You saw a somewhat different Crawford I think as he seemed to dribble a bit less and pass a lot more.

Overall, this was a critical win and it's great you could be there.

I think a big part of his problem is strength. He flops around like Gumby out there a lot of time. He get pushed around in the post a lot causing those crazy shot that break the backboard. Even on his drives, minimal contact really effects him. He's very weak, his handle is also an issues but I'd agree is lack of strength is also.

Duke13 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Great report, Doper.

I'm glad you got to see first hand what KAT goes through every game. He doesn't complain or carp more than a lot of players, so I still don't understand the treatment he gets from the officials. But the Wolves overall have been getting the short end from officials all season. Someone mentioned that KAT's good defensively when he makes the effort. My counter, and I'm sure you noticed it, is that KAT always gives great effort. His problem is makes too many dumb mistakes defensively. I'm not worried about that because it will work itself out through experience. As you noted, KAT and Butler are the keys to this team.

I've noticed the same defensive effort you saw out of Wiggins. As you noted, he's still not particularly good on 50-50 ball hustle plays, but that seems to be an awareness issue more than an effort issue for him. Offensively, I don't think his problem is strength. I think his main problem is his poor handle. Defenses are on to his poor handle and he knows it. As a result, he can't get to the hole like he used to. So he ends up pulling up for horrible contested fade-away jumpers which he's terrible at. I don't have an answer for him on the offensive end because at his age his handle won't improve much. He'd help his offense a lot if he would improve his perimeter shooting off the dribble, especially his 3-point shot, but after 4 seasons I don't expect to see a lot of improvement there. It's really up to the head coach to make better use of Andrew. Having Andrew dribble drive from the top of the key against a set defense is not the answer. More fast breaks and an overall quicker attack before the defense gets set, better floor spacing with more of Wiggins cutting to the basket, and more post-ups using Wiggins' length would all help Wiggins offensively.

I'm glad you got to see good Teague, hitting his shots, not dribble quite as much and playing with more pace. Watching good Teague is a treat. Watching bad Teague is painful. And I'm glad you got to see good Taj. Of course, there is not bad Taj. :). I just love that guy. You saw a somewhat different Crawford I think as he seemed to dribble a bit less and pass a lot more.

Overall, this was a critical win and it's great you could be there.

I think a big part of his problem is strength. He flops around like Gumby out there a lot of time. He get pushed around in the post a lot causing those crazy shot that break the backboard. Even on his drives, minimal contact really effects him. He's very weak, his handle is also an issues but I'd agree is lack of strength is also.

Actually, I think you're right about his lack of strength as part of his problem. I'm watching the replay of last night's game and I see it. The good news is that strength is something he can and likely will improve.

Duke13 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Great report, Doper.

I'm glad you got to see first hand what KAT goes through every game. He doesn't complain or carp more than a lot of players, so I still don't understand the treatment he gets from the officials. But the Wolves overall have been getting the short end from officials all season. Someone mentioned that KAT's good defensively when he makes the effort. My counter, and I'm sure you noticed it, is that KAT always gives great effort. His problem is makes too many dumb mistakes defensively. I'm not worried about that because it will work itself out through experience. As you noted, KAT and Butler are the keys to this team.

I've noticed the same defensive effort you saw out of Wiggins. As you noted, he's still not particularly good on 50-50 ball hustle plays, but that seems to be an awareness issue more than an effort issue for him. Offensively, I don't think his problem is strength. I think his main problem is his poor handle. Defenses are on to his poor handle and he knows it. As a result, he can't get to the hole like he used to. So he ends up pulling up for horrible contested fade-away jumpers which he's terrible at. I don't have an answer for him on the offensive end because at his age his handle won't improve much. He'd help his offense a lot if he would improve his perimeter shooting off the dribble, especially his 3-point shot, but after 4 seasons I don't expect to see a lot of improvement there. It's really up to the head coach to make better use of Andrew. Having Andrew dribble drive from the top of the key against a set defense is not the answer. More fast breaks and an overall quicker attack before the defense gets set, better floor spacing with more of Wiggins cutting to the basket, and more post-ups using Wiggins' length would all help Wiggins offensively.

I'm glad you got to see good Teague, hitting his shots, not dribble quite as much and playing with more pace. Watching good Teague is a treat. Watching bad Teague is painful. And I'm glad you got to see good Taj. Of course, there is not bad Taj. :). I just love that guy. You saw a somewhat different Crawford I think as he seemed to dribble a bit less and pass a lot more.

Overall, this was a critical win and it's great you could be there.

I think a big part of his problem is strength. He flops around like Gumby out there a lot of time. He get pushed around in the post a lot causing those crazy shot that break the backboard. Even on his drives, minimal contact really effects him. He's very weak, his handle is also an issues but I'd agree is lack of strength is also.

This was what I was seeing. It was often him intiating contact and getting pushed back. The good thing about this is that he can build strength in his core.

thedoper wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Great report, Doper.

I'm glad you got to see first hand what KAT goes through every game. He doesn't complain or carp more than a lot of players, so I still don't understand the treatment he gets from the officials. But the Wolves overall have been getting the short end from officials all season. Someone mentioned that KAT's good defensively when he makes the effort. My counter, and I'm sure you noticed it, is that KAT always gives great effort. His problem is makes too many dumb mistakes defensively. I'm not worried about that because it will work itself out through experience. As you noted, KAT and Butler are the keys to this team.

I've noticed the same defensive effort you saw out of Wiggins. As you noted, he's still not particularly good on 50-50 ball hustle plays, but that seems to be an awareness issue more than an effort issue for him. Offensively, I don't think his problem is strength. I think his main problem is his poor handle. Defenses are on to his poor handle and he knows it. As a result, he can't get to the hole like he used to. So he ends up pulling up for horrible contested fade-away jumpers which he's terrible at. I don't have an answer for him on the offensive end because at his age his handle won't improve much. He'd help his offense a lot if he would improve his perimeter shooting off the dribble, especially his 3-point shot, but after 4 seasons I don't expect to see a lot of improvement there. It's really up to the head coach to make better use of Andrew. Having Andrew dribble drive from the top of the key against a set defense is not the answer. More fast breaks and an overall quicker attack before the defense gets set, better floor spacing with more of Wiggins cutting to the basket, and more post-ups using Wiggins' length would all help Wiggins offensively.

I'm glad you got to see good Teague, hitting his shots, not dribble quite as much and playing with more pace. Watching good Teague is a treat. Watching bad Teague is painful. And I'm glad you got to see good Taj. Of course, there is not bad Taj. :). I just love that guy. You saw a somewhat different Crawford I think as he seemed to dribble a bit less and pass a lot more.

Overall, this was a critical win and it's great you could be there.

I think a big part of his problem is strength. He flops around like Gumby out there a lot of time. He get pushed around in the post a lot causing those crazy shot that break the backboard. Even on his drives, minimal contact really effects him. He's very weak, his handle is also an issues but I'd agree is lack of strength is also.

This was what I was seeing. It was often him intiating contact and getting pushed back. The good thing about this is that he can build strength in his core.

The weird thing is his strength defensively is night and day compared to last year.

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Great report, Doper.

I'm glad you got to see first hand what KAT goes through every game. He doesn't complain or carp more than a lot of players, so I still don't understand the treatment he gets from the officials. But the Wolves overall have been getting the short end from officials all season. Someone mentioned that KAT's good defensively when he makes the effort. My counter, and I'm sure you noticed it, is that KAT always gives great effort. His problem is makes too many dumb mistakes defensively. I'm not worried about that because it will work itself out through experience. As you noted, KAT and Butler are the keys to this team.

I've noticed the same defensive effort you saw out of Wiggins. As you noted, he's still not particularly good on 50-50 ball hustle plays, but that seems to be an awareness issue more than an effort issue for him. Offensively, I don't think his problem is strength. I think his main problem is his poor handle. Defenses are on to his poor handle and he knows it. As a result, he can't get to the hole like he used to. So he ends up pulling up for horrible contested fade-away jumpers which he's terrible at. I don't have an answer for him on the offensive end because at his age his handle won't improve much. He'd help his offense a lot if he would improve his perimeter shooting off the dribble, especially his 3-point shot, but after 4 seasons I don't expect to see a lot of improvement there. It's really up to the head coach to make better use of Andrew. Having Andrew dribble drive from the top of the key against a set defense is not the answer. More fast breaks and an overall quicker attack before the defense gets set, better floor spacing with more of Wiggins cutting to the basket, and more post-ups using Wiggins' length would all help Wiggins offensively.

I'm glad you got to see good Teague, hitting his shots, not dribble quite as much and playing with more pace. Watching good Teague is a treat. Watching bad Teague is painful. And I'm glad you got to see good Taj. Of course, there is not bad Taj. :). I just love that guy. You saw a somewhat different Crawford I think as he seemed to dribble a bit less and pass a lot more.

Overall, this was a critical win and it's great you could be there.

I think a big part of his problem is strength. He flops around like Gumby out there a lot of time. He get pushed around in the post a lot causing those crazy shot that break the backboard. Even on his drives, minimal contact really effects him. He's very weak, his handle is also an issues but I'd agree is lack of strength is also.

This was what I was seeing. It was often him intiating contact and getting pushed back. The good thing about this is that he can build strength in his core.

The weird thing is his strength defensively is night and day compared to last year.

Good point, Monster. Hard to explain. Again, I think it's linked to his ballhandling. I think it's harder to use the strength you have with the ball on offense when you're not teathered to or at one with the ball. I'm more and more impressed with the intensity Wiggins is bringing to the defensive side of the ball. I think he's trying on the offensive end to, but it's going to be hard for him to overcome his poor hands and poor ballhandling. He really needs to become a reliably good perimeter shooter to take his offensive game up a notch. Otherwise, I really think the coaching staff has to rethink how Wiggins is used in the offense -- running more with Wiggins out on the break and getting more post-ups and cuts for Wiggins in the half court.

lipoli390 wrote: I think it's harder to use the strength you have with the ball on offense when you're not... one with the ball.

Wiggins needs to be like Chirrut Îmwe, but "I am one with the ball, the ball is with me"!