Confirm/Deny Lavine is now our #1 wing prospect

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe there was a tweet about Wiggins percentages Wiggins is shooting on pull-ups this year that shows some healthy improvement. You can look up that stuff on NBA.com. It's no big deal but you mentioned improvements don i thought I would mention it.

Lavine of the Young 3 has been most consistant and looks the most solid but Like Q said he isn't the guy teams are focusing on. On the flip side he has generally speaking played his role paying off others well. His ability to get into the lane and finish right now is pretty good. He still has some bad stuff but at his age and other things he does you take it. that jumper is so nice. He needs to improve in a lot of areas but man he has come so far it feels like he can keep improving and even become worthwhile defensively.

Thanks for the insight. That's a good stat to know about the pull-ups.

To be fair, however, if he's improved that part of his game and three pointers statistically, but overall the stats are largely the same... where has he regressed?

[TheFuture]

Deny.

Once LaVine is consistently guarded by the opposing team's best wing defender and then also has to guard the other team's best wing, I'll confirm.

You can't look at these guys in a vacuum. Wiggins has been a focal point on both ends for going on three years now. Has he been good? For the most part, no. But has the attention he's drawn enabled LaVine to be more successful than otherwise? I think that is a valid thing.

Confirm

Your points have merit, but they are favored towards Wiggins without taking into consideration the approach forced by coaching. Wiggins has been baited and given ample opportunity by multiple coaching staffs to exceed expectations. I'd reckon he has failed to reach them. Its not fair to fault either player for that approach. Of course I cannot guarantee that Zach would be surpassing lofty expectations if given the same opportunities that Andrew has been given. But I'm comfortable stating Zach would at least reach Andrews numbers if he was the focal point.

One thing I have noticed lately is that Thibs is playing with the idea that Zach can handle more as shown by the propensity to play him with the second unit and run the offense through him. Thus far Zach is showing to be capable of doing such successfully.

With that said, could we also argue that Wiggins success has been hinged on playing exclusively with rubio, dieng, Towns, and LaVine while also having a seemingly guaranteed alpha position that is his to lose rather than gain?

On the other hand, Zach has fought through adversity like multiple positions, as well as playing with both starters and a crap bench. Yet his demeanor and effort level never seem to waiver.

This approach seems to favor LaVine in the long run because he is fighting for his merit rather than being gifted it.

Yes, Wiggins is guarding and guarded by the best, but can anyone say he has truly stepped up to the plate day in and day out? I can't. As was stated previously, wiggins has shown to have regressed in most advanced stats this season, where as Zach has kept on going with his improvement.

[Monster]

In their latest podcast Jon K answered a twitter question asking about moving Wiggins to the SG position and Lavine to 6th man. Jon K said he can see the rationale of that but he said he thought it was too early to do that. In addition he said how do you move Lavine to the bench when he has arguably been the most consistent player of the young guys? He said at this point it would be a hard sell for Then to tell him to be Manu. I agree. It I thought it was interesting to hear that from someone who is closer to the team.

[Monster]

Abe there was a tweet about Wiggins percentages Wiggins is shooting on pull-ups this year that shows some healthy improvement. You can look up that stuff on NBA.com. It's no big deal but you mentioned improvements don i thought I would mention it.

Lavine of the Young 3 has been most consistant and looks the most solid but Like Q said he isn't the guy teams are focusing on. On the flip side he has generally speaking played his role paying off others well. His ability to get into the lane and finish right now is pretty good. He still has some bad stuff but at his age and other things he does you take it. that jumper is so nice. He needs to improve in a lot of areas but man he has come so far it feels like he can keep improving and even become worthwhile defensively.

Thanks for the insight. That's a good stat to know about the pull-ups.

To be fair, however, if he's improved that part of his game and three pointers statistically, but overall the stats are largely the same... where has he regressed?

That's a fair question. Without going back and looking at game logs etc it seems like Wiggins has a few stretches every year of high and low. It wasn't that long ago people where gushing about him saying he had taken the next step etc. in a couple games he could be back to playing well and the stats at the end of the season show nice improvement. Now obviously as he goes along in his career he needs to limit those bad stretches. Everyone has a bad stretch here and there but it generally can't be like a 10 game stretch or something.

Just watching Wiggins his jumper looks much better. His ball handling looks better it it still needs to get better. I think his ability to make plays and pass has gotten better. I've also seen him compete more on the offensive and defensive glass. His effort still needs help but I don't freak out as much about that because to me he looks like a guy that takes the game plenty serious enough.

[Monster]

Which guy is the better prospect? That's tough. The reason lavine can look better on any given night is his skills offensively are much better than Wiggins. He actually handles the ball well. He can shoot. Wiggins has some really amazing pats of his game for a player that young but it's almost like he has the stuff old guys figure out later in there career to extent it and Wiggins is working towards having the other stuff because he doesn't have that shooting and ball handling skills...yet. I think Wiggins BBIQ is still better although the gap is closing but Wiggins shooting and ball handling have improved also.

When talking to Wolfson ina recent podcast David Thorpe had plenty to say but he really said it's so difficult to develop 3 young scorers all at the same time on the floor together. That's why playing Lavine with the 2unit guys more makes sense. OKC had 3 terrific scorers but they used Harden off the bench because they had a terrific complimentary player in sefalosha. Imagine if the Wolves had Roberson as a starter right now and they brought Lavine off the bench. First of all the defense would be much better and Roberson is a good player but yeah that would be something. Brandon Rush was supposed to give solid play off the bench as a vet guy and 3 point shooter but he has been banged up and therefore not really an option. Anyway the point is that again lots of talent but they are young and young guys are playing together it's just tough.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Which guy is the better prospect? That's tough. The reason lavine can look better on any given night is his skills offensively are much better than Wiggins. He actually handles the ball well. He can shoot. Wiggins has some really amazing pats of his game for a player that young but it's almost like he has the stuff old guys figure out later in there career to extent it and Wiggins is working towards having the other stuff because he doesn't have that shooting and ball handling skills...yet. I think Wiggins BBIQ is still better although the gap is closing but Wiggins shooting and ball handling have improved also.

When talking to Wolfson ina recent podcast David Thorpe had plenty to say but he really said it's so difficult to develop 3 young scorers all at the same time on the floor together. That's why playing Lavine with the 2unit guys more makes sense. OKC had 3 terrific scorers but they used Harden off the bench because they had a terrific complimentary player in sefalosha. Imagine if the Wolves had Roberson as a starter right now and they brought Lavine off the bench. First of all the defense would be much better and Roberson is a good player but yeah that would be something. Brandon Rush was supposed to give solid play off the bench as a vet guy and 3 point shooter but he has been banged up and therefore not really an option. Anyway the point is that again lots of talent but they are young and young guys are playing together it's just tough.

They're all in the "get mine" stage of their careers.

And I don't blame them. They should be.

[Duke13]

I can't handle how bad his hands are. Worst I've ever seen. Rebounds mysteriously fumble out of his hands, can't secure loose balls, the ball constantly gets ripped away has he goes to the hoop. It's unreal, it's what bothers me most out his game.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Deny.

Once LaVine is consistently guarded by the opposing team's best wing defender and then also has to guard the other team's best wing, I'll confirm.

You can't look at these guys in a vacuum. Wiggins has been a focal point on both ends for going on three years now. Has he been good? For the most part, no. But has the attention he's drawn enabled LaVine to be more successful than otherwise? I think that is a valid thing.

Confirm

Your points have merit, but they are favored towards Wiggins without taking into consideration the approach forced by coaching. Wiggins has been baited and given ample opportunity by multiple coaching staffs to exceed expectations. I'd reckon he has failed to reach them. Its not fair to fault either player for that approach. Of course I cannot guarantee that Zach would be surpassing lofty expectations if given the same opportunities that Andrew has been given. But I'm comfortable stating Zach would at least reach Andrews numbers if he was the focal point.

One thing I have noticed lately is that Thibs is playing with the idea that Zach can handle more as shown by the propensity to play him with the second unit and run the offense through him. Thus far Zach is showing to be capable of doing such successfully.

With that said, could we also argue that Wiggins success has been hinged on playing exclusively with rubio, dieng, Towns, and LaVine while also having a seemingly guaranteed alpha position that is his to lose rather than gain?

On the other hand, Zach has fought through adversity like multiple positions, as well as playing with both starters and a crap bench. Yet his demeanor and effort level never seem to waiver.

This approach seems to favor LaVine in the long run because he is fighting for his merit rather than being gifted it.

Yes, Wiggins is guarding and guarded by the best, but can anyone say he has truly stepped up to the plate day in and day out? I can't. As was stated previously, wiggins has shown to have regressed in most advanced stats this season, where as Zach has kept on going with his improvement.

A well thought out response Future, much appreciated. I can't argue with anything you say. That still doesn't change the fact that Wiggins has the tougher assignment most nights. I don't know how it would look like if things were reversed.

It's become de rigueur lately to claim Zach is the better/more talented of our two wings. I'm not there yet.

[Monster]

Deny.

Once LaVine is consistently guarded by the opposing team's best wing defender and then also has to guard the other team's best wing, I'll confirm.

You can't look at these guys in a vacuum. Wiggins has been a focal point on both ends for going on three years now. Has he been good? For the most part, no. But has the attention he's drawn enabled LaVine to be more successful than otherwise? I think that is a valid thing.

Confirm

Your points have merit, but they are favored towards Wiggins without taking into consideration the approach forced by coaching. Wiggins has been baited and given ample opportunity by multiple coaching staffs to exceed expectations. I'd reckon he has failed to reach them. Its not fair to fault either player for that approach. Of course I cannot guarantee that Zach would be surpassing lofty expectations if given the same opportunities that Andrew has been given. But I'm comfortable stating Zach would at least reach Andrews numbers if he was the focal point.

One thing I have noticed lately is that Thibs is playing with the idea that Zach can handle more as shown by the propensity to play him with the second unit and run the offense through him. Thus far Zach is showing to be capable of doing such successfully.

With that said, could we also argue that Wiggins success has been hinged on playing exclusively with rubio, dieng, Towns, and LaVine while also having a seemingly guaranteed alpha position that is his to lose rather than gain?

On the other hand, Zach has fought through adversity like multiple positions, as well as playing with both starters and a crap bench. Yet his demeanor and effort level never seem to waiver.

This approach seems to favor LaVine in the long run because he is fighting for his merit rather than being gifted it.

Yes, Wiggins is guarding and guarded by the best, but can anyone say he has truly stepped up to the plate day in and day out? I can't. As was stated previously, wiggins has shown to have regressed in most advanced stats this season, where as Zach has kept on going with his improvement.

A well thought out response Future, much appreciated. I can't argue with anything you say. That still doesn't change the fact that Wiggins has the tougher assignment most nights. I don't know how it would look like if things were reversed.

It's become de rigueur lately to claim Zach is the better/more talented of our two wings. I'm not there yet.

I think what we all can agree on is that the theoretical talent that Lavine a has always had seems to be turning into real ability. It's a fantastic development.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Another angle with those stats I posted earlier:

WIGGINS (per 36):
Year 1. 16.8 ppg / 4.5 reb / 2.1 ast / 43.7% fg / 39 - 126 3fg / 76.0 ft% / 2.1 TO / 13.9 PER
Year 2. 21.2 ppg / 3.7 reb / 2.1 ast / 45.9% fg / 57 - 190 3fg / 76.1% ft / 2.3 TO / 16.5 PER
Year 3. 22.0 ppg / 4.0 reb / 2.2 ast / 43.9% fg / 35 - 91 3fg / 75.9% / 2.6 TO / 15.4 PER

JABARI PARKER (per 36):
Year 1. 15.0 ppg / 6.7 reb / 2.0 ast / 49.0% fg / 4 - 16 3fg / 69.7 ft% / 2.3 TO / 14.5 PER
Year 2. 16.0 ppg / 5.9 reb / 1.9 ast / 49.3% fg / 9 - 35 3fg / 76.8% ft / 1.7 TO / 14.8 PER
Year 3. 21.1 ppg / 6.3 reb / 2.4 ast / 46.1% fg / 24 - 71 3fg / 76.8% / 1.7 TO / 18.1 PER

Both guys are below average defensively... with Wiggins faring worse in advanced stats. But to his credit... he has more of a definite position (SF/SG) than Parker (SF/PF).

It's only 20+ games this season. But THIS is the sort of improvement we often expect to see from young talented players.

By the way, looking at Jabari's stats... I knew they looked familiar. Yep. Take a look... anybody guess the player who posted these at age 21 (per 36)?

19.6 ppg / 6.0 reb / 1.9 ast / 46.1% fg / 34.6 3fg% / 78.5ft% / 2.3 TO / 17.4 PER