Time for a shoulda done this poll

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

While I'm not sold on Dunn (I was a vocal trade-down guy), I'm puzzled by those who see Murray as a solid 3rd pick. He's known as primarily a shooter, but he only makes 33% of his threes. And he is a complete disaster on defense...his 115 defensive rating tells me enough, but the eye test is even worse. I'm really happy we didn't draft him. At least Dunn has proven himself to be above average on one side of the ball...Murray has proven to be below average on both.

[WildWolf2813]

Won't know for a few more years. Rookies by and large are negative players in year 1. We'll see how they all bounce back with an offseason or two under their belt. The real time to play the hindsight game isn't for a few years when we actually know what kind of players these guys are.

That's no excuse. Dunn shoulda been ready from the word go. If we have to wait the same amount of time for Dunn as we would have for any other one and done, then it's botched decision already.

There's just no response for this. Anyone who takes a player for their rookie year production over another player should be fired. It's fucking year 1. Give the guy a damn chance to get better after a real NBA offseason now that he knows what he has to do to get better. I don't know what to say anymore. The expectations on this board are just fucked up.

It's not just about the rookie year production, but Kris Dunn wasn't taken with the idea that we were gonna wait 3 years to see how he'd look..Nobody believed that. It went from potentially trading Rubio to hand Dunn the keys to nearly EVERYONE believing Dunn had the inside track on the Rookie of the Year award to thinking Dunn was gonna get the starting job 20 games in to "let's get a bridge guard to hold it down while Dunn learns". That's a major lowering of expectations. Ricky Rubio played the worst basketball of his life for 2 months and Dunn was so bad he not only couldn't take that spot, it was hard to justify him playing over Jones. None of this was supposed to be part of the plan. Zach LaVine was awful his rookie year and even HE was in the Rising Stars game. This has been a bad rookie class to start out yet Dunn wasn't even good enough to go! Were these YOUR expectations of Dunn? If they were, you weren't expecting him to contribute then, which goes completely against even his most ardent detractors.

Find me the last upperclassman drafted in the top 10 that had a rookie year this disappointing. Probably the biggest disappointment since Thabeet in '09 and Thabeet didn't carry the same level of expectation and fanfare as Dunn. High expectations or not, nobody saw Dunn being this overmatched and that's deeply concerning no matter how much you wanna coddle him. It's gonna require a massive improvement from Dunn next year just to get back into the good graces he was in 4 months ago.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Won't know for a few more years. Rookies by and large are negative players in year 1. We'll see how they all bounce back with an offseason or two under their belt. The real time to play the hindsight game isn't for a few years when we actually know what kind of players these guys are.

That's no excuse. Dunn shoulda been ready from the word go. If we have to wait the same amount of time for Dunn as we would have for any other one and done, then it's botched decision already.

There's just no response for this. Anyone who takes a player for their rookie year production over another player should be fired. It's fucking year 1. Give the guy a damn chance to get better after a real NBA offseason now that he knows what he has to do to get better. I don't know what to say anymore. The expectations on this board are just fucked up.

It's not just about the rookie year production, but Kris Dunn wasn't taken with the idea that we were gonna wait 3 years to see how he'd look..Nobody believed that. It went from potentially trading Rubio to hand Dunn the keys to nearly EVERYONE believing Dunn had the inside track on the Rookie of the Year award to thinking Dunn was gonna get the starting job 20 games in to "let's get a bridge guard to hold it down while Dunn learns". That's a major lowering of expectations. Ricky Rubio played the worst basketball of his life for 2 months and Dunn was so bad he not only couldn't take that spot, it was hard to justify him playing over Jones. None of this was supposed to be part of the plan. Zach LaVine was awful his rookie year and even HE was in the Rising Stars game. This has been a bad rookie class to start out yet Dunn wasn't even good enough to go! Were these YOUR expectations of Dunn? If they were, you weren't expecting him to contribute then, which goes completely against even his most ardent detractors.

Find me the last upperclassman drafted in the top 10 that had a rookie year this disappointing. Probably the biggest disappointment since Thabeet in '09 and Thabeet didn't carry the same level of expectation and fanfare as Dunn. High expectations or not, nobody saw Dunn being this overmatched and that's deeply concerning no matter how much you wanna coddle him. It's gonna require a massive improvement from Dunn next year just to get back into the good graces he was in 4 months ago.

He's already a top 10 defensive PG in the league and his usage is too abysmal to bitch about his offense as much as people do. He's bad on offense and yet he's also barely finishing any possessions when he's on the court so what more do you want? You either have to let him try to finish more possessions or you can't bitch about a low usage guy offensively because he's not using up enough possessions to be a huge net negative. He's better defensively than I thought he'd be this early and worse offensively so it evens out. I just don't you how you can bitch out a bad offensive player who takes 4 shots per game and is largely told to pass the ball off and get out of the way. He's staying in the lane he's been assigned. He's a disruptive defender who does shit like rebound and block shots. His PER 36 has him at 4.7 boards, 5.5 assists, 1.9 steals and 1.0 blocks. On a team built around Towns, Wiggins and Zach, that is exactly what we need from our PG with hopefully some improved spot up shooting. I would be disappointed if Dunn was playing a lot and using a decent chunk of possessions and still doing this, but he uses 15% of his team's possessions in 17 minutes a game. And to your rising stars comment he didn't make the team because he's a gritty defender and not a flashy offensive player. That's all there is to it. That game is about entertainment and Dunn is not that guy. Zach very clearly was an entertaining player even though he was awful. And yes, I was fully prepared to wait until years 2-3 (crazy I know waiting a whole 2-3 years before calling a guy garbage) because I do understand most rookies are garbage regardless of how old they are.

[kekgeek]

Won't know for a few more years. Rookies by and large are negative players in year 1. We'll see how they all bounce back with an offseason or two under their belt. The real time to play the hindsight game isn't for a few years when we actually know what kind of players these guys are.

That's no excuse. Dunn shoulda been ready from the word go. If we have to wait the same amount of time for Dunn as we would have for any other one and done, then it's botched decision already.

There's just no response for this. Anyone who takes a player for their rookie year production over another player should be fired. It's fucking year 1. Give the guy a damn chance to get better after a real NBA offseason now that he knows what he has to do to get better. I don't know what to say anymore. The expectations on this board are just fucked up.

It's not just about the rookie year production, but Kris Dunn wasn't taken with the idea that we were gonna wait 3 years to see how he'd look..Nobody believed that. It went from potentially trading Rubio to hand Dunn the keys to nearly EVERYONE believing Dunn had the inside track on the Rookie of the Year award to thinking Dunn was gonna get the starting job 20 games in to "let's get a bridge guard to hold it down while Dunn learns". That's a major lowering of expectations. Ricky Rubio played the worst basketball of his life for 2 months and Dunn was so bad he not only couldn't take that spot, it was hard to justify him playing over Jones. None of this was supposed to be part of the plan. Zach LaVine was awful his rookie year and even HE was in the Rising Stars game. This has been a bad rookie class to start out yet Dunn wasn't even good enough to go! Were these YOUR expectations of Dunn? If they were, you weren't expecting him to contribute then, which goes completely against even his most ardent detractors.

Find me the last upperclassman drafted in the top 10 that had a rookie year this disappointing. Probably the biggest disappointment since Thabeet in '09 and Thabeet didn't carry the same level of expectation and fanfare as Dunn. High expectations or not, nobody saw Dunn being this overmatched and that's deeply concerning no matter how much you wanna coddle him. It's gonna require a massive improvement from Dunn next year just to get back into the good graces he was in 4 months ago.

He's already a top 10 defensive PG in the league and his usage is too abysmal to bitch about his offense as much as people do. He's bad on offense and yet he's also barely finishing any possessions when he's on the court so what more do you want? You either have to let him try to finish more possessions or you can't bitch about a low usage guy offensively because he's not using up enough possessions to be a huge net negative. He's better defensively than I thought he'd be this early and worse offensively so it evens out. I just don't you how you can bitch out a bad offensive player who takes 4 shots per game and is largely told to pass the ball off and get out of the way. He's staying in the lane he's been assigned. He's a disruptive defender who does shit like rebound and block shots. His PER 36 has him at 4.7 boards, 5.5 assists, 1.9 steals and 1.0 blocks. On a team built around Towns, Wiggins and Zach, that is exactly what we need from our PG with hopefully some improved spot up shooting. I would be disappointed if Dunn was playing a lot and using a decent chunk of possessions and still doing this, but he uses 15% of his team's possessions in 17 minutes a game. And to your rising stars comment he didn't make the team because he's a gritty defender and not a flashy offensive player. That's all there is to it. That game is about entertainment and Dunn is not that guy. Zach very clearly was an entertaining player even though he was awful. And yes, I was fully prepared to wait until years 2-3 (crazy I know waiting a whole 2-3 years before calling a guy garbage) because I do understand most rookies are garbage regardless of how old they are.

I'm 100% with you Kahn's I wanted Murray during the draft but literally nobody in this draft is playing good. All three of the options have terrible shooting % and have been below average players.

What do we have in Dunn, an above average defensive point guard (arguably the only player on the wolves who is an above average defender). He is a bad offensive point guard but he could still grow into a solid player.

There are 2 players that are all starts this year that played 4 years in college. Jimmy Butler (coached by thibs) and Draymond Green and they where both garbage their rookie year. Jimmy also averaged 2 pts per game.

I have a feeling this forum was created because Murray went off in the rising star challenge the same challenge Shevd showed out in.

I'm not saying Dunn is the next coming Garry Payton but let's see what happens for a guy that is a very good defensive player

[AbeVigodaLive]

Won't know for a few more years. Rookies by and large are negative players in year 1. We'll see how they all bounce back with an offseason or two under their belt. The real time to play the hindsight game isn't for a few years when we actually know what kind of players these guys are.

That's no excuse. Dunn shoulda been ready from the word go. If we have to wait the same amount of time for Dunn as we would have for any other one and done, then it's botched decision already.

There's just no response for this. Anyone who takes a player for their rookie year production over another player should be fired. It's fucking year 1. Give the guy a damn chance to get better after a real NBA offseason now that he knows what he has to do to get better. I don't know what to say anymore. The expectations on this board are just fucked up.

While I generally agree... Dunn is going to be 23 years old this season. His shot is not befitting a 23 year old player who can be a viable NBA starter right now.

Granted, things can change. And he brings other things to the table.

But it's fair to wonder if he's the right guy or not considering how poorly he looks on offense. Doesn't mean I'm giving up on him. I'm holding out hope that he can become a Marcus Smart guy who does a ton of little things to overcome legit issues on offense. (then again... Dunn is only 12 days younger than Smart)

[Monster]

None of those guys are players so would pick over any of the others. Like LST said I'll take Dunn because he can play D possibly ELITE D.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, the offensive side of the ball has been scary bad. And it's not like he has had a lack of opportunities/minutes or been jerked around. He has had an extremely consistent role as the #1 backup PG.

Dunn was my guy in the draft and I'm sticking with him for now. His defense is the real deal and what he does on that side of the ball is not something that can be taught. He is also long and strong enough to guard 1s, 2s, and some 3s, so there is versatility to the types of positions he can guard. Hell, we've even seen him be a weak side shot blocker!

But the offense just has to improve.....a lot.

[Papalrep]

Let's face it. He was the 4th player taken in the draft. We were hoping for Gary Payton. We got Marcus Smart (maybe). Maybe we weren't realistic, but this guy was packaged as a ready to go stud. He has been a disappointment. No doubt the same can be said for this whole draft class. Really from 1 through 10, has anyone lived up to hype?

[Papalrep]

Uhh 5th. Sorry.

[thedoper]

I think Marcus Smart is a great comp and I can live with that all day. A perimeter Defensive stopper is fine by me.