Minnesota Sports Forum

The next move is to give Arnie Kander all the money and years to stay and hope he's good enough to keep this team healthy come playoff time.

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Wow. Power couple. We are a legit franchise. Maybe this was Taylor's last play before selling? He is set to make a pretty penny on his 80 million dollar investment.

Go Wolves!!!

I've thought about this very angle a few times. How much more does this franchise seem like it's worth now with a top HC and a legit experienced basketball executive? If these guys get this team in the playoffs next year Glen will be looking good and so will the price of his team.

It's really laughable how little professionalism Glen brought to this team until now, and for how much he got in for, he is going to make a windfall. If I hear another argument about the poor owners and the risk they take on in the next round of CBA negotiations I'm going to barf.

***note- this is not a defense of the players being greedy either. There is more than enough money to go around. If they fuck up the next CBA and lose games I am going to be so pissed

Here's a review from Wikipedia of Layden's tenure with the Knicks. You might get a bit nauseous, so have a bucket in front of you when your reading:

General Manager of the New York Knicks[edit]

Layden was the New York Knicks executive vice president and general manager from 1999-2001, and the president and general manager of the organization from 2001-2003.[3] The Knicks under Layden's watch (and of his successor Isiah Thomas) were called the "Worst Franchise in Sports" by ESPN.com.[4]

The 1999-00 NBA Season[edit]

Layden took over as general manager of the Knicks after the strike-shortened, Cinderella-story season of 1998-99 that saw the team make history by becoming the first #8 seed in a conference to reach the NBA Finals.[5] He replaced interim GM Ed Tapscott, who had already used the team's selection in the 1999 NBA Draft to take injured Frenchman Frédéric Weis with the team's first round pick over Ron Artest.

The new GM of the Knicks made his first notable transaction when he signed controversial shooting guard Latrell Sprewell to a five-year, $61.9 million contract extension that would keep him in a Knick uniform through the 2003-04 season, although he would later be traded.[6] Sprewell was a highly touted basketball talent, but he ran into off court issues with his former organization the Golden State Warriors when he was accused of strangling then head coach P. J. Carlesimo during a practice. Soon after becoming a member of the Knicks, Sprewell was involved in a car crash that saw him, "drive his Mercedes-Benz on a freeway from an exit lane".[7]

The 2000-01 NBA Season - Team Record: 48-34[edit]

August 1, 2000 saw Layden make his second big move when he re-signed free agent power forward Kurt Thomas to a 3-year, $13M contract extension with a 1-year team option.

On September 20, the Knicks GM traded veteran, all-star, and team captain center Patrick Ewing to the Seattle SuperSonics in a four-team deal that saw back-up center Chris Dudley and the Knicks 2001 first-round draft pick go to the Phoenix Suns, in return for forwards Glen Rice & Lazaro Borrell, guard Vernon Maxwell, centers Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Vladimir Stepania, a 2001 first-round draft pick from the Los Angeles Lakers, a 2002 first-round draft pick from the Seattle SuperSonics, and two 2001 second-round draft picks. Rice played in 75 games, averaging 12 points-per-game for New York before being traded to Houston. Knight appeared in 126 games over three seasons, averaging less than 9 minutes per-game. Longley played in 25 games for the Knicks averaging 2 points and 2.6 rebounds, while Borrell, Maxwell, & Stepania never saw action for the team. Ewing's production had decreased due to age and chronic injury over the past few seasons, and team brass felt that a deal was in the best interest of the future of the organization.

On January 30, 2001, guard Erick Strickland and a first and second-round draft pick from the Ewing trade was sent to the Vancouver Grizzlies for back-up forward/center Othella Harrington. Harrington would go to play in 237 games for New York while only starting in 77.[8] Vancouver would take Jamaal Tinsley with the 27th-pick in the draft acquired from New York.

February 22 saw guard Chris Childs and the other first-round draft pick sent to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for aging guards Mark Jackson and Muggsy Bogues. Bogues would never appear in a game for the Knicks, while Jackson would play less than two full seasons for the team that originally made him the 18th pick in the 1987 draft.

The 2001-02 NBA Season - Team Record: 30-52[edit]

With the Knicks no longer having a first round draft pick in the 2001 NBA Draft, Layden used the team's two second round picks on Michael Wright of Arizona (39th overall) and center Eric Chenowith of Kansas (43rd overall). Neither player ever saw action in the NBA.[9]

On July 23, Knicks shooting guard Allan Houston re-signed as a free agent to a 6-year, $100M guaranteed contract that would keep him in New York until the 2006-07 season, when he would be 35. The signing made Houston, who had never averaged 20-points-per-game in a season at that time, the highest-paid player in franchise history.[10] This transaction put the team "well over $80 million in payroll this season [2001]." [11] Houston retired after the 2004-05 season with chronic knee complications; there was roughly $40,000,000 left on his contract.[12]

Less than a month later, on August 10, Glen Rice was traded to the Houston Rockets and guard Muggsy Bogues to the Dallas Mavericks as part of a three-team deal in exchange for guard Howard Eisley from the Mavericks and forward Shandon Anderson from the Rockets. On paper this trade looks merely like a swap of average NBA players, but this was not the case. Eisley would end up playing in 154 games for Knicks, providing adequate numbers at the point guard position, but he was currently in the second year of a 7-year, $41 Million contract that he signed by Layden's former organization, the Utah Jazz. At the same time, Anderson, another former member of the Jazz was in the first year of a 6-year, $42 Million contract that he signed with the Rockets, which extended through the 2006-07 season. Anderson played in 245 games for the knicks over four seasons before being waived due to poor performance; he averaged less than 3 rebounds and 8 points-per-game during his stay. In comparison to the contracts New York gave up, Bogues was in the second year of a 4-year $8 Million contract with the fourth year being a team option, and Rice was under contract for three more years and $27 Million.[13] The trade proved to be a bad financial decision as the team was well over the salary cap limit.

Layden's next major move came after the unexpected resignation of head coach Jeff Van Gundy on December 8. Don Chaney was selected as an interim coach for the remainder of the 2001-02 season. After the team went 20-43 .317% under his command, he was given a contract extension for the following season.

The 2002-03 NBA Season - Team Record: 37-45[edit]

The biggest move that Layden made during the 2002-03 season was completed on draft night. After selecting Nenê with the 7th pick in the 2002 NBA draft, he was immediately traded along with Marcus Camby and Mark Jackson to the Denver Nuggets in return for power forward Antonio McDyess, the draft rights to guard Frank Williams and a 2003 second-round draft pick.[14] McDyess, a former #2 draft pick, was already limited to role-player status due to chronic injury; He played only 18 games for the Knicks. Williams was a disappointment from the beginning, his Knick career lasted 65 games with only three starts. On the other end of this transaction, Denver received a solid NBA player in power forward/center Marcus Camby. Camby had averaged a double-double (at least 10 rebounds and 10 points per-game) over his last two seasons as a Knick and nearly 2 blocked shots, along with being an integral part of New York's eastern conference title in 1999.

The 2003-04 NBA Season - Team Record: 10-18[edit]

Layden's last season as the GM for the Knicks started off with the selections of Mike Sweetney from Georgetown with the 9th-pick in the draft, Maciej Lampe of Poland with the 30th-pick, and Slavko Vrane? of Serbia and Montenegro with the 39th-pick. Sweetney was later traded by Layden's successor Isiah Thomas as part of the deal with the Chicago Bulls that saw the Knicks acquire center Eddy Curry. Lampe never played in a game for New York as he was later traded to the Phoenix Suns, also by Thomas as part of the deal that saw Stephon Marbury come to the Knicks. Vrane? also never saw NBA action with New York, he was waived by the team after being tendered a 1-year minimum contract; currently his career spans one game with the Portland Trail Blazers.

On July 23, 2003 Layden traded guard Latrell Sprewell with two years remaining on his contract to the Minnesota Timberwolves as part of a four-team trade that also included interactions with the 76ers and Hawks. In return, the Knicks acquired veteran forward Keith Van Horn. Van Horn, an integral part of the New Jersey Nets 2002 eastern conference title, played in only 47 games for New York in just one season, averaging 16.4 points and 7.3 rebounds-per-game.[15]

The last notable transaction that Layden made as general manager came on October 9, when he signed Dikembe Mutombo to a 2-year contract.

Scott Layden was fired on December 22, 2003 by New York Knicks owner James Dolan.

lipoli390 wrote:Here's a review from Wikipedia of Layden's tenure with the Knicks. You might get a bit nauseous, so have a bucket in front of you when your reading:

General Manager of the New York Knicks[edit]

Layden was the New York Knicks executive vice president and general manager from 1999-2001, and the president and general manager of the organization from 2001-2003.[3] The Knicks under Layden's watch (and of his successor Isiah Thomas) were called the "Worst Franchise in Sports" by ESPN.com.[4]

The 1999-00 NBA Season[edit]

Layden took over as general manager of the Knicks after the strike-shortened, Cinderella-story season of 1998-99 that saw the team make history by becoming the first #8 seed in a conference to reach the NBA Finals.[5] He replaced interim GM Ed Tapscott, who had already used the team's selection in the 1999 NBA Draft to take injured Frenchman Frédéric Weis with the team's first round pick over Ron Artest.

The new GM of the Knicks made his first notable transaction when he signed controversial shooting guard Latrell Sprewell to a five-year, $61.9 million contract extension that would keep him in a Knick uniform through the 2003-04 season, although he would later be traded.[6] Sprewell was a highly touted basketball talent, but he ran into off court issues with his former organization the Golden State Warriors when he was accused of strangling then head coach P. J. Carlesimo during a practice. Soon after becoming a member of the Knicks, Sprewell was involved in a car crash that saw him, "drive his Mercedes-Benz on a freeway from an exit lane".[7]

The 2000-01 NBA Season - Team Record: 48-34[edit]

August 1, 2000 saw Layden make his second big move when he re-signed free agent power forward Kurt Thomas to a 3-year, $13M contract extension with a 1-year team option.

On September 20, the Knicks GM traded veteran, all-star, and team captain center Patrick Ewing to the Seattle SuperSonics in a four-team deal that saw back-up center Chris Dudley and the Knicks 2001 first-round draft pick go to the Phoenix Suns, in return for forwards Glen Rice & Lazaro Borrell, guard Vernon Maxwell, centers Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Vladimir Stepania, a 2001 first-round draft pick from the Los Angeles Lakers, a 2002 first-round draft pick from the Seattle SuperSonics, and two 2001 second-round draft picks. Rice played in 75 games, averaging 12 points-per-game for New York before being traded to Houston. Knight appeared in 126 games over three seasons, averaging less than 9 minutes per-game. Longley played in 25 games for the Knicks averaging 2 points and 2.6 rebounds, while Borrell, Maxwell, & Stepania never saw action for the team. Ewing's production had decreased due to age and chronic injury over the past few seasons, and team brass felt that a deal was in the best interest of the future of the organization.

On January 30, 2001, guard Erick Strickland and a first and second-round draft pick from the Ewing trade was sent to the Vancouver Grizzlies for back-up forward/center Othella Harrington. Harrington would go to play in 237 games for New York while only starting in 77.[8] Vancouver would take Jamaal Tinsley with the 27th-pick in the draft acquired from New York.

February 22 saw guard Chris Childs and the other first-round draft pick sent to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for aging guards Mark Jackson and Muggsy Bogues. Bogues would never appear in a game for the Knicks, while Jackson would play less than two full seasons for the team that originally made him the 18th pick in the 1987 draft.

The 2001-02 NBA Season - Team Record: 30-52[edit]

With the Knicks no longer having a first round draft pick in the 2001 NBA Draft, Layden used the team's two second round picks on Michael Wright of Arizona (39th overall) and center Eric Chenowith of Kansas (43rd overall). Neither player ever saw action in the NBA.[9]

On July 23, Knicks shooting guard Allan Houston re-signed as a free agent to a 6-year, $100M guaranteed contract that would keep him in New York until the 2006-07 season, when he would be 35. The signing made Houston, who had never averaged 20-points-per-game in a season at that time, the highest-paid player in franchise history.[10] This transaction put the team "well over $80 million in payroll this season [2001]." [11] Houston retired after the 2004-05 season with chronic knee complications; there was roughly $40,000,000 left on his contract.[12]

Less than a month later, on August 10, Glen Rice was traded to the Houston Rockets and guard Muggsy Bogues to the Dallas Mavericks as part of a three-team deal in exchange for guard Howard Eisley from the Mavericks and forward Shandon Anderson from the Rockets. On paper this trade looks merely like a swap of average NBA players, but this was not the case. Eisley would end up playing in 154 games for Knicks, providing adequate numbers at the point guard position, but he was currently in the second year of a 7-year, $41 Million contract that he signed by Layden's former organization, the Utah Jazz. At the same time, Anderson, another former member of the Jazz was in the first year of a 6-year, $42 Million contract that he signed with the Rockets, which extended through the 2006-07 season. Anderson played in 245 games for the knicks over four seasons before being waived due to poor performance; he averaged less than 3 rebounds and 8 points-per-game during his stay. In comparison to the contracts New York gave up, Bogues was in the second year of a 4-year $8 Million contract with the fourth year being a team option, and Rice was under contract for three more years and $27 Million.[13] The trade proved to be a bad financial decision as the team was well over the salary cap limit.

Layden's next major move came after the unexpected resignation of head coach Jeff Van Gundy on December 8. Don Chaney was selected as an interim coach for the remainder of the 2001-02 season. After the team went 20-43 .317% under his command, he was given a contract extension for the following season.

The 2002-03 NBA Season - Team Record: 37-45[edit]

The biggest move that Layden made during the 2002-03 season was completed on draft night. After selecting Nenê with the 7th pick in the 2002 NBA draft, he was immediately traded along with Marcus Camby and Mark Jackson to the Denver Nuggets in return for power forward Antonio McDyess, the draft rights to guard Frank Williams and a 2003 second-round draft pick.[14] McDyess, a former #2 draft pick, was already limited to role-player status due to chronic injury; He played only 18 games for the Knicks. Williams was a disappointment from the beginning, his Knick career lasted 65 games with only three starts. On the other end of this transaction, Denver received a solid NBA player in power forward/center Marcus Camby. Camby had averaged a double-double (at least 10 rebounds and 10 points per-game) over his last two seasons as a Knick and nearly 2 blocked shots, along with being an integral part of New York's eastern conference title in 1999.

The 2003-04 NBA Season - Team Record: 10-18[edit]

Layden's last season as the GM for the Knicks started off with the selections of Mike Sweetney from Georgetown with the 9th-pick in the draft, Maciej Lampe of Poland with the 30th-pick, and Slavko Vrane? of Serbia and Montenegro with the 39th-pick. Sweetney was later traded by Layden's successor Isiah Thomas as part of the deal with the Chicago Bulls that saw the Knicks acquire center Eddy Curry. Lampe never played in a game for New York as he was later traded to the Phoenix Suns, also by Thomas as part of the deal that saw Stephon Marbury come to the Knicks. Vrane? also never saw NBA action with New York, he was waived by the team after being tendered a 1-year minimum contract; currently his career spans one game with the Portland Trail Blazers.

On July 23, 2003 Layden traded guard Latrell Sprewell with two years remaining on his contract to the Minnesota Timberwolves as part of a four-team trade that also included interactions with the 76ers and Hawks. In return, the Knicks acquired veteran forward Keith Van Horn. Van Horn, an integral part of the New Jersey Nets 2002 eastern conference title, played in only 47 games for New York in just one season, averaging 16.4 points and 7.3 rebounds-per-game.[15]

The last notable transaction that Layden made as general manager came on October 9, when he signed Dikembe Mutombo to a 2-year contract.

Scott Layden was fired on December 22, 2003 by New York Knicks owner James Dolan.

And after all that, the Spurs hired him.

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Wow. Power couple. We are a legit franchise. Maybe this was Taylor's last play before selling? He is set to make a pretty penny on his 80 million dollar investment.

Go Wolves!!!

I've thought about this very angle a few times. How much more does this franchise seem like it's worth now with a top HC and a legit experienced basketball executive? If these guys get this team in the playoffs next year Glen will be looking good and so will the price of his team.

It's really laughable how little professionalism Glen brought to this team until now, and for how much he got in for, he is going to make a windfall. If I hear another argument about the poor owners and the risk they take on in the next round of CBA negotiations I'm going to barf.

***note- this is not a defense of the players being greedy either. There is more than enough money to go around. If they fuck up the next CBA and lose games I am going to be so pissed

I'm on record since the last lockout ended... that it's a certainty there'll be another lockout.

The owners destroyed the players the last go-round... I didn't count on THIS MUCH MONEY being tossed about though. There's so so much right now and everybody seems to be winning... is it worth it to risk any of it?

Then again, if there's a way for players and owners to win... and fans to lose... it's going to happen. That's the nature of pro sports today. Damn it people. PESSIMIST ABE IS BACK!

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Not the decision I would have made. I just hope Glen pushed hard and got credible assurances from him that he would show some flexibility and dial down his intensity. Otherwise, I fear he'll wear our players down physically and mentally and ultimately alienate some or all of them within a couple years.

Lip I feel better knowing that a legit NBA executive that's basically endorsed but Thibs in Scott Layden is coming on with Thibs. I just don't see Thibs wanting a total yes man type and Layden has plenty of chops to make his case even if Thibs has the final say over things.

I'm hoping the one year sabbatical and simply getting one year older has perhaps given Thibs a different perspective....Not that I'm expecting a huge change, but may be a couple of the edges are little less sharp.

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Wow. Power couple. We are a legit franchise. Maybe this was Taylor's last play before selling? He is set to make a pretty penny on his 80 million dollar investment.

Go Wolves!!!

I've thought about this very angle a few times. How much more does this franchise seem like it's worth now with a top HC and a legit experienced basketball executive? If these guys get this team in the playoffs next year Glen will be looking good and so will the price of his team.

I agree with all of this, except I think something deeper was at play here: His legacy. When one gets up in age like Glen, money begins to play a lesser role in one's motivation. I think he finally realized that he had to change his natural instinct for comfortable, close-to-home type moves and pull out all the stops. The speed and decisiveness in which he has moved has blown me away.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Wow. Power couple. We are a legit franchise. Maybe this was Taylor's last play before selling? He is set to make a pretty penny on his 80 million dollar investment.

Go Wolves!!!

I've thought about this very angle a few times. How much more does this franchise seem like it's worth now with a top HC and a legit experienced basketball executive? If these guys get this team in the playoffs next year Glen will be looking good and so will the price of his team.

I agree with all of this, except I think something deeper was at play here: His legacy. When one gets up in age like Glen, money begins to play a lesser role in one's motivation. I think he finally realized that he had to change his natural instinct for comfortable, close-to-home type moves and pull out all the stops. The speed and decisiveness in which he has moved has blown me away.

Yes but a 12-15 x return on your investment never hurts either.

khans2k5 wrote:The next move is to give Arnie Kander all the money and years to stay and hope he's good enough to keep this team healthy come playoff time.

Agree. I think Sam also deserves credit for not hammering KAT and Rubio with huge minutes early on. And in fact, he was careful with Rubio even deep into the season. Not sure Thibs will take this approach though....

Good move Glen. Thibs was the best or 2nd best candidate available and he's a proven winner. I think he's got a chip on his shoulder and hungry to win a title.