Thanks Flip

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

I also have pleasant memories of "Phil" the U player and U coach, but maybe pump the brake here.

It is clear that KG was Mchale's idea, and where would this franchise be if they passed on KG?

The trade that brought Dieng here was brilliant, in the very narrow scope that he knew Bazz would still be there because nobody wanted him after the "birther" scandal.

It also needs to be remembered that Bazz/Lavine/Wiggins were originally brought here due to their connection to Bill Duffy, and if Wiggins had signed with Lebron James' agency, Lebron would have not been so comfortable getting rid of him.

And hopefully all this goodwill will still be there when ATL is using MIN's first on draft night 2018. Don't get me wrong, I smile a little to myself whenever I watch Austin Rivers play, but eventually all this shedding of picks can come back to bite you.

Maybe pump the brakes a little on this one.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, I'm not sure there has ever been a consensus on this board, to Abe's point. KAT is probably the one guy that everyone ultimately rallied around, but even then, there was a holdover or two (Khans comes to mind, as I believe he stuck with Okafor).

Flip definitely made some blunders as a POBO and got incredibly lucky too. But at the end of the day, he had to make the decision to pull the trigger on the Love trade and taking KAT #1. I think LaVine is the guy that could ultimately determine his final great as A versus B+. If Zach becomes a great 2-way SG, that's 100% in Flip's favor.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

LST, I'm not sure there has ever been a consensus on this board, to Abe's point. KAT is probably the one guy that everyone ultimately rallied around, but even then, there was a holdover or two (Khans comes to mind, as I believe he stuck with Okafor).

Flip definitely made some blunders as a POBO and got incredibly lucky too. But at the end of the day, he had to make the decision to pull the trigger on the Love trade and taking KAT #1. I think LaVine is the guy that could ultimately determine his final great as A versus B+. If Zach becomes a great 2-way SG, that's 100% in Flip's favor.

Khans, SameOldDrew, thedoper... Those are just off the top of my head, so it wasn't necessarily all in favor of at the time, no.

And I agree, LaVine is where Flip deserves the most credit. If the 2014 NBA Draft was re-done today, LaVine goes top-three without question. Flip got him at 13. That's a huge win.

[Monster]

I don't think there's been a successful franchise that hasn't received a bit of luck along the way.

The most successful are the ones that capitalize on it the most...

I don't disagree, and in all fairness this franchise has been on the wrong side of Lady Luck most of the time...for instance, never once moving up in the lottery, and for several years, always having pick X+1 in an X player draft. I was just providing a reality check on where this roster might be if this board had been the POBO instead of Flip. We wouldn't have Bazz and G, because that deal was never discussed here...but we might have McCollum and Gobert instead (I'm too lazy to go back and check who the favorite picks were back then, but I remember a lot of support for these two. We clearly would have KAT and Wig. I think Zach was the consensus board pick at 13, so we would have him too. And the board would have done what it takes to lock up Ricky. We probably would have reluctantly done the Pek deal, although we were certainly split on that...so possibly we may have let him go. I don't think we would have used a first round pick to get Bud, and I also know we wouldn't have used up first rounders to obtain Thad and AP, so that's three additional first round picks that we could have used to add talent. Even though the board was on balance in favor of the KG deal, it never would have happened without Flip...the board is probably split in retrospect on whether that deal was good or not. We wouldn't have done the Tyus deal, but instead would have drafted a PG at 23 (let's say Joe Young, although I can't remember who the board wanted at 23 with Portis gone), and still would have had our second rounders. We didn't want Zach to be playing PG, so we would have signed a veteran PG to back up Ricky (who?). We would have used the pick we gave up for Bud to draft a backup center (I don't know who).

So I would argue that if we had been in charge the past three years. our roster today would have looked something like this:

Gobert, draft pick, Pek
KAT, Belly
Wig, ?
LaVine, McCollum
Ricky, vet free agent, Young

Without doing the KG and other free agent deals that Flip did, there would have been plenty of cash available to get a backup SF and PG in free agency. And we would still have the two additional first rounders abd 2 second rounders that Flip gave up in deals we wouldn't have done.

I love where our roster stands right now, but the roster we would have built would have even been stronger...not even counting the 2 additional first rounders we could use. And this isn't hindsight...it's based on opinions we expressed at the time. It's all hypothetical, but we should take a bow!

To be fair, if the board was in charge... some combination of Cool vs. Camden or Cool and Doper vs. Me and Q would have resulted with Target Center burned to the ground...

Haha yes. It would have been over that multi-year extension Q offered to Robbie Hummel.

Good stuff. Hey whatever happened to the deal where we were going to buy the team from Glen? We wouldn't have even had to borrow the whole amount we coulda just got in for 30%.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't think there's been a successful franchise that hasn't received a bit of luck along the way.

The most successful are the ones that capitalize on it the most...

I don't disagree, and in all fairness this franchise has been on the wrong side of Lady Luck most of the time...for instance, never once moving up in the lottery, and for several years, always having pick X+1 in an X player draft. I was just providing a reality check on where this roster might be if this board had been the POBO instead of Flip. We wouldn't have Bazz and G, because that deal was never discussed here...but we might have McCollum and Gobert instead (I'm too lazy to go back and check who the favorite picks were back then, but I remember a lot of support for these two. We clearly would have KAT and Wig. I think Zach was the consensus board pick at 13, so we would have him too. And the board would have done what it takes to lock up Ricky. We probably would have reluctantly done the Pek deal, although we were certainly split on that...so possibly we may have let him go. I don't think we would have used a first round pick to get Bud, and I also know we wouldn't have used up first rounders to obtain Thad and AP, so that's three additional first round picks that we could have used to add talent. Even though the board was on balance in favor of the KG deal, it never would have happened without Flip...the board is probably split in retrospect on whether that deal was good or not. We wouldn't have done the Tyus deal, but instead would have drafted a PG at 23 (let's say Joe Young, although I can't remember who the board wanted at 23 with Portis gone), and still would have had our second rounders. We didn't want Zach to be playing PG, so we would have signed a veteran PG to back up Ricky (who?). We would have used the pick we gave up for Bud to draft a backup center (I don't know who).

So I would argue that if we had been in charge the past three years. our roster today would have looked something like this:

Gobert, draft pick, Pek
KAT, Belly
Wig, ?
LaVine, McCollum
Ricky, vet free agent, Young

Without doing the KG and other free agent deals that Flip did, there would have been plenty of cash available to get a backup SF and PG in free agency. And we would still have the two additional first rounders abd 2 second rounders that Flip gave up in deals we wouldn't have done.

I love where our roster stands right now, but the roster we would have built would have even been stronger...not even counting the 2 additional first rounders we could use. And this isn't hindsight...it's based on opinions we expressed at the time. It's all hypothetical, but we should take a bow!

To be fair, if the board was in charge... some combination of Cool vs. Camden or Cool and Doper vs. Me and Q would have resulted with Target Center burned to the ground...

Haha yes. It would have been over that multi-year extension Q offered to Robbie Hummel.

The worst part is that Q would hired his beloved goon, Jeff Adrien, to do all the dirty work...

[kekgeek]

I want to thank flip for putting the wolves in this position that we are in. He got us 2 ROY, drafted gourgi, lavine and shabazz. Re-sign rubio. With his roster moves he put this team on this map where the wolves could pick any coach they wanted. We are finally in a position where there is actual hope and even if you don't love the coaching hire it feels like the wolves are being run right.

R.I.P Flip and thank you

I'm a huge Flip fan and have been since the days he arrived in Williams Arena as Phil Saunders. One of my favorite local sports guys ever. And I agree that his POBO moves have left us in a position where the #1 coaching prospect out there knew we were the most attractive option...it's fun to be a Wolves fan now!

But, if I had to assign credit to his moves between "Flip" and "Good fortune", I would probably give 80% of the credit to good fortune. Take the 2 ROYs for example. Most of us loved the Wig/Love deal, but does anyone really think it happens without James orchestrating it? Also, it was Lady Luck that allowed us to get the #1 pick last year, and almost anyone would have used that pick to take KAT. (It would have been easier to evaluate Flip's drafting acumen if we had finished #2 in the lottery. Would he have taken Okafor or Russell, or been smart enough to take Porzingis?). I was a big fan of trading the pick 3 years ago to get Bazz and Gorgui, but I was wrong about CJ McCollum...you could make an argument that he would have been a better pick than what we ended up with. I do give him credit for the Rubio signing and the LaVine draft pick, but there are some that question those moves too...time will tell if they were brilliant moves or not.

Maybe this is quibbling a little too much, because what kekgeek says is true...this franchise is in the best position it has ever been in. And Flip presided over the reconstruction of this roster. But we could also list several Flip moves which have not panned out (Thad, Payne, Bud, etc.), and I don't think this is using hindsight because most of those moves were panned by the consensus here at the time. This franchise is in a great position to succeed, but don't you think we would be in better position if every move in the last 3 years had been made by the consensus of this board rather than Flip? We'd still have Kat and Wig, and maybe even LaVine. But we also would probably have a couple first round picks that would look awfully good right now. It would be interesting to reflect on what this roster (and our draft status) would look like today if this board had been in charge during the past three years!

I understand what you are saying that we had some luck and that is true, and every good franchise needed some luck to be where they are at. Look at the top teams spurs got the #1 pick to take Duncan. Warriors needed the wolves to pass twice on curry and needed the jazz to take on big contacts of bienderns (sp) and Richard Jefferson to get iggy. Thunder got lucky the Blazers selected Oden over Durant. Clippers got lucky that the CP3 trade didn't go through with the Lakers. The Cavs lucky to get 3 of 4 #1 draft picks to obtain Irving and have the assets to trade for love to get lebron back.

So did flip get lucky yes, but all franchises who are good have some luck. Also if we didn't make the Burke trade and selected cj and Gobert instead we might not of been in position to select towns.

Flip took over a team that missed the playoffs and the best player wanted out and in three years I would say the wolves are a top 7 job.

He gave us a foundation that nobody has given the wolves in 12 years. Now it is thibs job to put us over the top. I am excited that there is legit hope that the wolves can make that next step.

[Monster]

Why be such a downer in a tribute thread? :)

Like others have said Lavine may be the true genius of Flip but I think he should get credit for some of the other moves people may describe as luck. Some people may have made a quicker move with Love but I think it's possible Flip himself being from Cleveland had some indication what Lebron was going to do. It sure seemed that way based on something he said or how he said it on the funkadelic before Lebron to Cleveland transpired. Lebron to the Cavs was lucky but Flip played that pretty well.

What has not really been mentioned here that may be as significant as anything (especially if you are just going with the ho hum luck thing) is Flip had a vision and he actually executed it. Kahn and plenty of other failed or mediocre NBA executives talked about how great their vision was all the things they were going to do and...it ended up at best meh. Flip took over a franchise that was floundering in culture. Flip went about trying to change that in both small and big ways. He partnered with Mayo clinic and now the Wolves may have the best facilities outside the Actual arena in the entire league. He worked to bring in more health staff and ultimately brought in one of the best guys around in Arnie. Some of it was the success of the young players he drafted (don't forget that while we sold too many picks he also drafted Dubs who is a pretty nice player) or made moves for but Flip moved this franchise from looking like a joke to something respected. Glen deserves at least a little credit for that as well. How many times were the Wolves given credit his year for bringing in legit vets to help team and doing a lot of the right things for a young team?

Flip laid the groundwork in many ways for this franchise to have future success. Hopefully some things he put in place like Arnie can stay in place and this franchise with new leadership can grow.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Why be such a downer in a tribute thread? :)

Like others have said Lavine may be the true genius of Flip but I think he should get credit for some of the other moves people may describe as luck. Some people may have made a quicker move with Love but I think it's possible Flip himself being from Cleveland had some indication what Lebron was going to do. It sure seemed that way based on something he said or how he said it on the funkadelic before Lebron to Cleveland transpired. Lebron to the Cavs was lucky but Flip played that pretty well.

What has not really been mentioned here that may be as significant as anything (especially if you are just going with the ho hum luck thing) is Flip had a vision and he actually executed it. Kahn and plenty of other failed or mediocre NBA executives talked about how great their vision was all the things they were going to do and...it ended up at best meh. Flip took over a franchise that was floundering in culture. Flip went about trying to change that in both small and big ways. He partnered with Mayo clinic and now the Wolves may have the best facilities outside the Actual arena in the entire league. He worked to bring in more health staff and ultimately brought in one of the best guys around in Arnie. Some of it was the success of the young players he drafted (don't forget that while we sold too many picks he also drafted Dubs who is a pretty nice player) or made moves for but Flip moved this franchise from looking like a joke to something respected. Glen deserves at least a little credit for that as well. How many times were the Wolves given credit his year for bringing in legit vets to help team and doing a lot of the right things for a young team?

Flip laid the groundwork in many ways for this franchise to have future success. Hopefully some things he put in place like Arnie can stay in place and this franchise with new leadership can grow.

Saunders brought professionalism back to the Timberwolves. That might sound easy enough to do... but it was sorely missing before he arrived.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Why be such a downer in a tribute thread? :)

Like others have said Lavine may be the true genius of Flip but I think he should get credit for some of the other moves people may describe as luck. Some people may have made a quicker move with Love but I think it's possible Flip himself being from Cleveland had some indication what Lebron was going to do. It sure seemed that way based on something he said or how he said it on the funkadelic before Lebron to Cleveland transpired. Lebron to the Cavs was lucky but Flip played that pretty well.

What has not really been mentioned here that may be as significant as anything (especially if you are just going with the ho hum luck thing) is Flip had a vision and he actually executed it. Kahn and plenty of other failed or mediocre NBA executives talked about how great their vision was all the things they were going to do and...it ended up at best meh. Flip took over a franchise that was floundering in culture. Flip went about trying to change that in both small and big ways. He partnered with Mayo clinic and now the Wolves may have the best facilities outside the Actual arena in the entire league. He worked to bring in more health staff and ultimately brought in one of the best guys around in Arnie. Some of it was the success of the young players he drafted (don't forget that while we sold too many picks he also drafted Dubs who is a pretty nice player) or made moves for but Flip moved this franchise from looking like a joke to something respected. Glen deserves at least a little credit for that as well. How many times were the Wolves given credit his year for bringing in legit vets to help team and doing a lot of the right things for a young team?

Flip laid the groundwork in many ways for this franchise to have future success. Hopefully some things he put in place like Arnie can stay in place and this franchise with new leadership can grow.

Look, on the Lavine thing, the dunks are nice, but he's a 6th man (KAT, GD, SM, AW, RR), and if you think he's better, then remember, if he signs with David Falk or Arm Tellum, he's not even there.

I can't argue with the Love deal. I definitely would have panicked and taken the Celtics Pics/PupuPlatter. If you feel he had "indication", that would have come from one of Duffy's clients calling Duffy and saying "Why is Lebron an ass to me everyday?", and then Duffy calling Flip.

I think Flip having a "Vision" is overrated. He basically drafted and/or traded for Duffy client's three straight years. When he finally stopped, he drafted KAT instead of Okafor. I would love to hear the machinations behind that, but the one guy who can truly answer can't speak.

I agree that the training staff seems to have taken a step forward recently, but if as fans we need Flip to tell Taylor the importance of that, then we're in trouble, and the guy who was once the assistant got the head job at GSW and by all intents and purposes seems to be knocking it out of the park there. I don't know without researching if that was Kahn's doing.

I don't know who "dubs" is. If you mean Wiggins, he was drafted by CLE and acquired in trade.

And to conclude, this is the guy who once said after selling a 2nd rounder to HOU that they used on Parsons that he did it because there wasn't anyone left who was good enough to make the Wolves, and traded a 1st for Payne on the word of Izzo. The person he should have called was Dennis Green, and asked "Say, you once drafted a Michigan State player in the first based on the word of their coach. How did that work out?"

Actually I lied: He talked Mchale into Kandi because his agent was...nevermind, you get the idea.

As a fan, I am glad things started going well, but I think vision is too strong of a word.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I think Flip gets credit for the young nucleus, but I'm not sold that he would have been the guy that successfully built around them. His last couple of moves (getting nothing for Brewer, trading for Payne, trading Young for Garnett, signing Garnett to $8M per year while leaving the frontcourt thin) were piss poor and I'm not sure he really had a plan for head coach moving forward. He went after Joerger an off-season or two ago, which would have been really good in my view, but outside of that, who knows. He was supposedly not a fan of Thibodeau at all for this group, which I find insane, and I do think he might have thought Mitchell was the man for the job down the line. Or he was trying to groom his son Ryan for the position, which also would have been a mistake (think about what I've said about this team and a young coach). I also think it's possible that Flip might have dealt Rubio mid-season or this upcoming off-season, which would have been a huge mistake, in my opinion.

He's definitely missed by family, friends, fans, and all around the basketball scene, but I think as a franchise we're better with Thibodeau leading the charge on the court with Layden as his GM.