Tom Thibodeau...let's discusss

[TAFKASP]

I'm not ready to make a link between Belly's poor play and Wig's clutch time failures in the first two games and Thibs' critical nature, but I am going to put it out there as a potential concern.

Outside of small stretches last season Belly played poorly, and unless my memory really sucks I don't recall Wiggins having ice in his veins in final shot situations in his first two seasons. Thibs frowns cannot be blamed for changing these players into exactly what they already were, but if we were a quarter way through the season it would be fair to question why he hasn't helped them develop.

[TAFKASP]

Hopefully not all young men in their early twenties are whiney Millenial bitches that can't take instruction and criticism . These guys are making a lot of money , shut up and do your job.

On this issue I'm willing to go full Pork Chop!

[60WinTim]

Here is a coaching tip I have learned over the years: it's much easier to be tough early on and soften up over the course of the season than it is to be soft early on and realize you needed to be tougher later in the season.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

If our young pups cannot stand the heat of their coach frowning upon them then they'll never be able to take the pressure of a deep playoff run, much less a championship series. It is way way way too early to be worrying about such things IMO, and again, if the concern is legitimate then the problem isn't our coach but the mental fortitude of our team.

I see those two things (how you react to a coach's style, and how you respond to the pressure of a deep playoff run) as being very different. But maybe I'm leaning too much on my own athletic experience in making that assessment, because they are totally different to me. I had different basketball coaches my junior year and senior years in high school, and they had totally different styles...the negative style of my junior coach always had me second guessing myself, and I think my tentative play held me back. He was replaced with a guy who was the mirror opposite...not afraid to point out in practice things we had done poorly or could improve, but always positive and quick to offer encouragement during games...I never felt that I was going to look over and see a scowl after taking a hasty shot, instead I would see my coach clapping and encouraging me to get back on D. Needless to say, I played much looser and better my senior year, and if that makes me oversensitive and unable to stand the heat, so be it...guilty as charged. But even though I admit I am fragile when it comes to reacting to a coach's (or in business, a boss's) style, I have never had a problem with the pressure of the situation...in fact, the more critical the game or moment, the better I play. So I don't know about others, but I think you're talking about two different things.

I'll point to last year as an example of how environment can impact how NBA players play. Most of us would say that the young Wolves played great the first 10 games of the year, then stunk terribly for a long time, and then played very well the final couple months of the season. I always attributed the improvement to our young guys coming of age, but a couple months ago I learned about another factor...KG. The players loved him at the start of the year, but then grew really tired of his relentless "coaching" and pointing out brusquely what they were doing wrong. I have been told he was the closest thing to a cancer we have had on this team since...well, another guy who happens to have the same first name. When he disappeared and stopped being such a negative factor the last couple months of the year, the team really blossomed. Does that mean we have players on the team who lack fortitude and character? I don't think so. I just think that KG was a very powerful presence on the team who had a negative effect on our young players' natural ability coming out. I'm just hoping that Thibs isn't creating a similar environment, and hope that he can dial it back a little during games.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm not ready to make a link between Belly's poor play and Wig's clutch time failures in the first two games and Thibs' critical nature, but I am going to put it out there as a potential concern.

Outside of small stretches last season Belly played poorly, and unless my memory really sucks I don't recall Wiggins having ice in his veins in final shot situations in his first two seasons. Thibs frowns cannot be blamed for changing these players into exactly what they already were, but if we were a quarter way through the season it would be fair to question why he hasn't helped them develop.

I don't disagree about Belly, although I actually thought Wig did seem to be fairly strong late in games last year. But by the way, although I think Sam was better at encouraging his players than Thibs (although not as competent as Thibs in x's and o's), I don't think he excelled in this area either...and especially wasn't helpful in developing Belly.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm not ready to make a link between Belly's poor play and Wig's clutch time failures in the first two games and Thibs' critical nature, but I am going to put it out there as a potential concern.

Outside of small stretches last season Belly played poorly, and unless my memory really sucks I don't recall Wiggins having ice in his veins in final shot situations in his first two seasons. Thibs frowns cannot be blamed for changing these players into exactly what they already were, but if we were a quarter way through the season it would be fair to question why he hasn't helped them develop.

I don't disagree about Belly, although I actually thought Wig did seem to be fairly strong late in games last year. But by the way, although I think Sam was better at encouraging his players than Thibs (although not as competent as Thibs in x's and o's), I don't think he excelled in this area either...and especially wasn't helpful in developing Belly.

Wig has been very good at the end of games for the most part. I'll argue that point relentlessly.

[BloopOracle]

Hmm... This wreaks of the "Wiggins is a Bust" thread.

I LOVE that is this was exactly what I was thinking when I finished the OP and moved on to your post

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Thibs is here. He isn't getting fired after two games. He isn't getting fired after 1 season. All we can do at this stage is trust he knows what he is doing.

[TAFKASP]

If our young pups cannot stand the heat of their coach frowning upon them then they'll never be able to take the pressure of a deep playoff run, much less a championship series. It is way way way too early to be worrying about such things IMO, and again, if the concern is legitimate then the problem isn't our coach but the mental fortitude of our team.

I see those two things (how you react to a coach's style, and how you respond to the pressure of a deep playoff run) as being very different. But maybe I'm leaning too much on my own athletic experience in making that assessment, because they are totally different to me. I had different basketball coaches my junior year and senior years in high school, and they had totally different styles...the negative style of my junior coach always had me second guessing myself, and I think my tentative play held me back. He was replaced with a guy who was the mirror opposite...not afraid to point out in practice things we had done poorly or could improve, but always positive and quick to offer encouragement during games...I never felt that I was going to look over and see a scowl after taking a hasty shot, instead I would see my coach clapping and encouraging me to get back on D. Needless to say, I played much looser and better my senior year, and if that makes me oversensitive and unable to stand the heat, so be it...guilty as charged. But even though I admit I am fragile when it comes to reacting to a coach's (or in business, a boss's) style, I have never had a problem with the pressure of the situation...in fact, the more critical the game or moment, the better I play. So I don't know about others, but I think you're talking about two different things.

I'll point to last year as an example of how environment can impact how NBA players play. Most of us would say that the young Wolves played great the first 10 games of the year, then stunk terribly for a long time, and then played very well the final couple months of the season. I always attributed the improvement to our young guys coming of age, but a couple months ago I learned about another factor...KG. The players loved him at the start of the year, but then grew really tired of his relentless "coaching" and pointing out brusquely what they were doing wrong. I have been told he was the closest thing to a cancer we have had on this team since...well, another guy who happens to have the same first name. When he disappeared and stopped being such a negative factor the last couple months of the year, the team really blossomed. Does that mean we have players on the team who lack fortitude and character? I don't think so. I just think that KG was a very powerful presence on the team who had a negative effect on our young players' natural ability coming out. I'm just hoping that Thibs isn't creating a similar environment, and hope that he can dial it back a little during games.

I understand where you're coming from but I just cannot agree. In Marine boot camp we had all types of personalities but one style of leadership, and lots of frowning and no quitters. When I think back over the great NBA players of my lifetime I can't think of any who shrunk under the glare of a taskmaster. Part of the reason today's snowflakes feel they need easier coaching is because they always had easier coaching. If Wiggins hadn't been coddled through his youth and year in college he would likely have learned how to play with fire, the lack of which is one of his biggest weaknesses.

I wouldn't want to share a foxhole with a snowflake, and I wouldn't want to count on one late in the fourth quarter of game seven either. Thibs is no drill instructor, but he is absolutely right to set expectations and hold players to them IMO.

[TAFKASP]

I'm not ready to make a link between Belly's poor play and Wig's clutch time failures in the first two games and Thibs' critical nature, but I am going to put it out there as a potential concern.

Outside of small stretches last season Belly played poorly, and unless my memory really sucks I don't recall Wiggins having ice in his veins in final shot situations in his first two seasons. Thibs frowns cannot be blamed for changing these players into exactly what they already were, but if we were a quarter way through the season it would be fair to question why he hasn't helped them develop.

I don't disagree about Belly, although I actually thought Wig did seem to be fairly strong late in games last year. But by the way, although I think Sam was better at encouraging his players than Thibs (although not as competent as Thibs in x's and o's), I don't think he excelled in this area either...and especially wasn't helpful in developing Belly.

My comment on Wiggins wasn't about late 4th quarter performance, but like last night, final shot to tie/win a game performance. He's always seemed hesitant in that situation, but like last night he's very capable of being the player to key a late game comeback. He simply hasn't looked confident to me when taking the final shot.