Minnesota Sports Forum

Hicks123 wrote:This is funny. Dieng is a borderline starter, and Bazz is simply not as good as people want to believe him to be. And in return we get Millsap or Horford, both top 5 at their respective positions. Huh, this seems too easy:)

And I don't know of any guarantee we can get from Horford, as I don't think contracts can be discussed in season. Like Cam said, we would just have to chance it.

Regardless of Horfords FA status, we aren't getting either he or Millsap for Dieng and Bazz. I actually think Dieng is a fine start to a deal, but Lavine or someone else will need to go for Atl to look at it IMO.

You're right about Dieng + Bazz not being enough to get Millsap. Those extra years on his contract up his value. It depends on what their intentions are with Horford, though. If they believe they can't/won't/shouldn't re-sign him, then they're looking at getting a possible starter in Dieng plus a 23-year old Bazz, who could be a very good scorer off the bench, for a FA-to-be that could leave them for nothing.

The Magic and Celtics are the two teams that I've seen linked to Horford recently, but I don't see a player they'd realistically be open to moving for Horford that's better than Dieng.

Keep in mind Bazemore is also potentially leaving ATL, so, Muhammad could be looked at as a cheaper replacement.

Camden wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:This is funny. Dieng is a borderline starter, and Bazz is simply not as good as people want to believe him to be. And in return we get Millsap or Horford, both top 5 at their respective positions. Huh, this seems too easy:)

And I don't know of any guarantee we can get from Horford, as I don't think contracts can be discussed in season. Like Cam said, we would just have to chance it.

Regardless of Horfords FA status, we aren't getting either he or Millsap for Dieng and Bazz. I actually think Dieng is a fine start to a deal, but Lavine or someone else will need to go for Atl to look at it IMO.

You're right about Dieng + Bazz not being enough to get Millsap. Those extra years on his contract up his value. It depends on what their intentions are with Horford, though. If they believe they can't/won't/shouldn't re-sign him, then they're looking at getting a possible starter in Dieng plus a 23-year old Bazz, who could be a very good scorer off the bench, for a FA-to-be that could leave them for nothing.

The Magic and Celtics are the two teams that I've seen linked to Horford recently, but I don't see a player they'd realistically be open to moving for Horford that's better than Dieng.

Keep in mind Bazemore is also potentially leaving ATL, so, Muhammad could be looked at as a cheaper replacement.

1. As noted, Millsap will opt out after next season. So there's less risk. But the issue will come up next season with him too.
2. If Atlanta is rebuilding... Muhammad after 3 seasons of largely irrelevant and often selfish play and horrible D is not much of a foundation. Especially since he's going to want to get paid soon. Atlanta is going to want draft picks for starters if they decide to rebuild.
3. Millsap and Horford are vets who are versatile and know how to play. So I think both will have suitors from playoff teams looking to get over the hump that drives up the price tags. Those teams are going to be able to offer much better prospects/players than two rotation guys looking at new contracts after next season (albeit one borderline starter) from a team that's gone 32 - 103 over the past two seasons.

I know this sounds homer but I am not giving up assets like Bazz and Dieng for the "Chance" at signing Horford next offseason. If Horford was a couple years younger then it sounds better but yeah no thanks. I know where Cam is coming from though when he puts forth his position I'm just stating mine. The main problem with these deals is the Wolves don't have guys to throw in to match salaries. Why did we buy out Bennett we could use that contract... lol

I do think Atlanta should blow things up though if they can get some younger pieces or assets back for some of these players. It's a bit of a shame they built up that team in a nice way but it's not going to cut it the way it is right now and it seems pretty unlikely to get better.

And with Horford, a Max deal next season will be 5 years, $144MM. I love Horford, but that seems like a potential issue down the road.

Why would we even want to target Millsap or Horford? Both are about 30 years old and highly paid. If we were close to a championship team and one of those guys was the missing piece - sure. But the only championship we're going for is to try and win the lottery again. Adding a vet at this point would only screw that up.

IMO - the worst thing we could do now is give up young/cheap players for high priced older guys. Yes, Horford and Millsap are good players. But we should be looking two or three years down the road. Are they going to be worth their salary at age 33 when Towns/Wiggins/LaVine and our next top 5 pick are peaking? Or will they become our next Pekovic.

Also, we don't have a long term coach or GM in place. I for one don't want current group making any big decisions. I'd prefer to stand pat until we know who's running the show going forward. Don't take on any large/bad contracts. Don't trade away any young/cheap players. Yes, we need some vets. But those can signed by the new regime as free agents AFTER the season. Why give up any cheap young players to get those guys now? Maybe the next coach can use what we have more effectively. If not, I'd trust whomever in charge next year to make a better decision than what we have currently.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:This is funny. Dieng is a borderline starter, and Bazz is simply not as good as people want to believe him to be. And in return we get Millsap or Horford, both top 5 at their respective positions. Huh, this seems too easy:)

And I don't know of any guarantee we can get from Horford, as I don't think contracts can be discussed in season. Like Cam said, we would just have to chance it.

Regardless of Horfords FA status, we aren't getting either he or Millsap for Dieng and Bazz. I actually think Dieng is a fine start to a deal, but Lavine or someone else will need to go for Atl to look at it IMO.

You're right about Dieng + Bazz not being enough to get Millsap. Those extra years on his contract up his value. It depends on what their intentions are with Horford, though. If they believe they can't/won't/shouldn't re-sign him, then they're looking at getting a possible starter in Dieng plus a 23-year old Bazz, who could be a very good scorer off the bench, for a FA-to-be that could leave them for nothing.

The Magic and Celtics are the two teams that I've seen linked to Horford recently, but I don't see a player they'd realistically be open to moving for Horford that's better than Dieng.

Keep in mind Bazemore is also potentially leaving ATL, so, Muhammad could be looked at as a cheaper replacement.

1. As noted, Millsap will opt out after next season. So there's less risk. But the issue will come up next season with him too.
2. If Atlanta is rebuilding... Muhammad after 3 seasons of largely irrelevant and often selfish play and horrible D is not much of a foundation. Especially since he's going to want to get paid soon. Atlanta is going to want draft picks for starters if they decide to rebuild.
3. Millsap and Horford are vets who are versatile and know how to play. So I think both will have suitors from playoff teams looking to get over the hump that drives up the price tags. Those teams are going to be able to offer much better prospects/players than two rotation guys looking at new contracts after next season (albeit one borderline starter) from a team that's gone 32 - 103 over the past two seasons.

What playoff teams have better prospects/players to give up that wouldn't completely rock the boat and make the trade a big risk? I don't see any playoff teams with a better piece than Dieng that's gonna be available for guys on expiring or 1 year deals. The only way we get beat is if someone offers good draft picks for them and who's gonna do that without a long-term commitment. I think if we get anyone in the door with Towns and Wiggins they'll stay because they know those guys are gonna be really good within the next year or two.

Also, the road to winning isn't guaranteed with this crop of young players and time. Good teams are built on good players when they're young, when they're in their prime and when they're old. We have guys who fit in the 1 & 3 categories, but nobody in the middle category which is the one that wins the most games. You get a Horford or a Millsap so you can win now and then in 5 years you keep winning by adding new pieces around the then stars that come from winning now rather than continue to put it off for down the road because waiting down the road isn't a solution either because it doesn't just click and all of a sudden you become a 45-50 win team in 1 year with guys who consistent are a bottom 5 team. You don't plan your signings for 5 years out because so much can change in that time. You plan for 2-3 years out which means a Millsap or Horford really help for 2-3 years and you figure it out from there.

Carlos Danger wrote:Why would we even want to target Millsap or Horford? Both are about 30 years old and highly paid. If we were close to a championship team and one of those guys was the missing piece - sure. But the only championship we're going for is to try and win the lottery again. Adding a vet at this point would only screw that up.

IMO - the worst thing we could do now is give up young/cheap players for high priced older guys. Yes, Horford and Millsap are good players. But we should be looking two or three years down the road. Are they going to be worth their salary at age 33 when Towns/Wiggins/LaVine and our next top 5 pick are peaking? Or will they become our next Pekovic.

Also, we don't have a long term coach or GM in place. I for one don't want current group making any big decisions. I'd prefer to stand pat until we know who's running the show going forward. Don't take on any large/bad contracts. Don't trade away any young/cheap players. Yes, we need some vets. But those can signed by the new regime as free agents AFTER the season. Why give up any cheap young players to get those guys now? Maybe the next coach can use what we have more effectively. If not, I'd trust whomever in charge next year to make a better decision than what we have currently.

I would play hardball and not try and give up to much young talent. I don't think Atlanta is going to get great offers for either of these players at this point. Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Horford is out. I personally wouldn't give Dieng and Bazz, because that would signal we could be real contenders to sign him anyway. But I think adding a vet that can actually play is a good move for us.

Camden wrote:
You're right about Dieng + Bazz not being enough to get Millsap. Those extra years on his contract up his value. It depends on what their intentions are with Horford, though. If they believe they can't/won't/shouldn't re-sign him, then they're looking at getting a possible starter in Dieng plus a 23-year old Bazz, who could be a very good scorer off the bench, for a FA-to-be that could leave them for nothing.

The Magic and Celtics are the two teams that I've seen linked to Horford recently, but I don't see a player they'd realistically be open to moving for Horford that's better than Dieng.

Boston has been collecting assets like crazy in last couple of years. They have already several young prospects that have proven to have a positive impact for playoff team like Sullinger, Smart and Olynyk. They have also depth in every single position, so they are in great position make quantity for quality trade. They also have something like 6 extra (in addition to their own) 1st round picks in next three drafts, so I think it would be impossible for Minnesota to outbid them if they really want Horford. Minnesota's only hope would be that Atlanta would not totally blow up their team and that they don't want to trade with Boston since they are competing about play off spot in east.

khans2k5 wrote:
What playoff teams have better prospects/players to give up that wouldn't completely rock the boat and make the trade a big risk? I don't see any playoff teams with a better piece than Dieng that's gonna be available for guys on expiring or 1 year deals. The only way we get beat is if someone offers good draft picks for them and who's gonna do that without a long-term commitment. I think if we get anyone in the door with Towns and Wiggins they'll stay because they know those guys are gonna be really good within the next year or two.

Boston has six extra 1st round picks in next three drafts, young somehow proved prospects in Smart, Olynyk and Sullinger and depth in every position to make quantity for quality trade.

Even team like Toronto has couple of extra 1st round picks in next two drafts and some young players with reasonable contracts in Biyombo, Joseph and Ross and then some wild cards in Wright, Noguira and Caboclo to make a push for Horford of Millsap.

Denver is not a playoff team currently even though they are not yet totally out of competition. But if they want to speed up their rebuild by adding already proven talent, they have 5 1st round picks in next summer draft, promising young big men with bargain contracts in Nurkic, Nokic and Lauvergne that they could package with Faried.

I have a hard time to believe that Atlanta would trade either Horford of Millsap to package that doesn't contain any 1st round picks in near drafts. This is why wasting two picks to Thad and Payne might bite us since we don't have enough pieces to make trade for all star level players like Millsap or Horford.

No love for Teague? I would love to see another starting caliber PG play with this group.