Minnesota Sports Forum

Martell Webster is another guy that made a career as a decent bench player. I think a lot of what happened here is they just were expected to do to much with no talent around them.

lipoli390 wrote:No, I'm not talking about our own Andre Miller. I'm referring to Detroit's Andre Drummomd. He had 29 points and 27 rebounds tonight in a win over Portland. He's averaging 18.6 points and 19 boards. Depending on how well the Pistons ultimately do, Mr. Drummond is looking like a MVP candidate. His rebounding is prolific.

btw. 18-19 averages were before this game was counted in .. now he averages 20.3-20.3 which i would not believe i would ever see

AbeVigodaLive wrote:You have to think the free throws are going to be an issue.

It's an issue for a 4th or 5th option like D. Jordan. Drummond is a go-to guy for Detroit. He has the ball a lot. And despite starting the season 14 - 21... he's regressed back to what he's always been... a HORRIFIC shooter.

3 - 19 over his last two games?!?!?

just no to this, they are not using him to run plays for him so that he would try to beat guys on low block, he absolutely destroys opponents on off. boards and majority of his missed shots are missed tip ins, he is doing exactly what DJ does just much much better, have you even watched few games of Pistons or you just digged into boxscores? :-)

btw. Pistons also have best perimeter defense in league as both R.Jackson/KCP are pretty good defenders and nobody wants to drive in to meet the beast :-)

bleedspeed177 wrote:Martell Webster is another guy that made a career as a decent bench player. I think a lot of what happened here is they just were expected to do to much with no talent around them.

Yeah and I think it was Tim and I that had interest in bringing him back and he went to the Wizards for dirt cheap and played well. :) Really it was all about health with both him and Bud as Wolves neither stayed healthy. If either guy stays decently healthy they would have been at the very least solid acquisitions for the Wolves. Webster did have more hype and to a certain extent understandably so. I do think with the Love trade and now winning the lottery with Towns we can move on from that previous era with a pretty clean break. The chance for something new and special is here.

m4gor wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:No, I'm not talking about our own Andre Miller. I'm referring to Detroit's Andre Drummomd. He had 29 points and 27 rebounds tonight in a win over Portland. He's averaging 18.6 points and 19 boards. Depending on how well the Pistons ultimately do, Mr. Drummond is looking like a MVP candidate. His rebounding is prolific.

btw. 18-19 averages were before this game was counted in .. now he averages 20.3-20.3 which i would not believe i would ever see

AbeVigodaLive wrote:You have to think the free throws are going to be an issue.

It's an issue for a 4th or 5th option like D. Jordan. Drummond is a go-to guy for Detroit. He has the ball a lot. And despite starting the season 14 - 21... he's regressed back to what he's always been... a HORRIFIC shooter.

3 - 19 over his last two games?!?!?

just no to this, they are not using him to run plays for him so that he would try to beat guys on low block, he absolutely destroys opponents on off. boards and majority of his missed shots are missed tip ins, he is doing exactly what DJ does just much much better, have you even watched few games of Pistons or you just digged into boxscores? :-)

btw. Pistons also have best perimeter defense in league as both R.Jackson/KCP are pretty good defenders and nobody wants to drive in to meet the beast :-)

Not understanding what you're trying to refute.

Drummond's usage% is 23.7%.
D. Jordan's is at 12.7%.

Obviously, part of that is simply by being so damn good getting the ball himself. But 2x the usage rate? Sorry, but that seems to indicate that Drummond has the ball a lot more than Jordan does and that it could lead to a lot of free throws. That's all I'm saying.

bleedspeed177 wrote:Martell Webster is another guy that made a career as a decent bench player. I think a lot of what happened here is they just were expected to do to much with no talent around them.

Exactly. Once you get a core group of just three or four very good players, it's amazing how much they form a rising tide that "lifts all boats" so to speak. That's why I think players like Tolliver, Hummel, Adrien...these sort of stay-in-your lane/low-mistake type players become MORE valuable as the core talent gets better. You can plug them in and they won't bring the team down because they know their role and generally make the right decisions.

The hard part is finding the stars. Let's hope that Towns-Wiggins-Rubio are the three pillars with Belly and hopefully either LaVine or Shabazz as that 4th and 5th piller, albeit a tier down from the top group. After that, it's really about just finding smart role players to fill in the gaps.

bleedspeed177 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:If only there was another van gundy out there who could help us.

I wish he had a brother or sister.

I heard he has a brother who's a former coach and excellent analyst. Not sure about a sister, why, you looking for a date?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Not understanding what you're trying to refute.

Drummond's usage% is 23.7%.
D. Jordan's is at 12.7%.

Obviously, part of that is simply by being so damn good getting the ball himself. But 2x the usage rate? Sorry, but that seems to indicate that Drummond has the ball a lot more than Jordan does and that it could lead to a lot of free throws. That's all I'm saying.

do you watch their games or not? they ARE NOT using him as a scoring option at all, only as rolling guy to the basket on PnR, he also sometimes touches ball before PnR is played, they use him on low post maybe 2 times a game and he shoots no midrange at all, most of his misses are tip ins .. btw. he has 7 offensive rebounds per game so far and DJ 2.5

Q12543 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Martell Webster is another guy that made a career as a decent bench player. I think a lot of what happened here is they just were expected to do to much with no talent around them.

Exactly. Once you get a core group of just three or four very good players, it's amazing how much they form a rising tide that "lifts all boats" so to speak. That's why I think players like Tolliver, Hummel, Adrien...these sort of stay-in-your lane/low-mistake type players become MORE valuable as the core talent gets better. You can plug them in and they won't bring the team down because they know their role and generally make the right decisions.

The hard part is finding the stars. Let's hope that Towns-Wiggins-Rubio are the three pillars with Belly and hopefully either LaVine or Shabazz as that 4th and 5th piller, albeit a tier down from the top group. After that, it's really about just finding smart role players to fill in the gaps.

Yeah that's a good perspective. Which to me brings us back around to the start of this thread. It does look a bit like that is what SVG has done in Detroit. He has surrounded Jackson and Drummond with guys that compliment them well. They have a couple young guys that could be that 3rd guy and they also have Jennings as a player that could be useful in some way when he gets back. Maybe the most shocking thing is how well the other Morris twin has played. Who saw that coming even in this limited sample?

BizarroJerry wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:If only there was another van gundy out there who could help us.

I wish he had a brother or sister.

I heard he has a brother who's a former coach and excellent analyst. Not sure about a sister, why, you looking for a date?

If she looks ANYTHING like her brothers... ewwww

m4gor wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Not understanding what you're trying to refute.

Drummond's usage% is 23.7%.
D. Jordan's is at 12.7%.

Obviously, part of that is simply by being so damn good getting the ball himself. But 2x the usage rate? Sorry, but that seems to indicate that Drummond has the ball a lot more than Jordan does and that it could lead to a lot of free throws. That's all I'm saying.

do you watch their games or not? they ARE NOT using him as a scoring option at all, only as rolling guy to the basket on PnR, he also sometimes touches ball before PnR is played, they use him on low post maybe 2 times a game and he shoots no midrange at all, most of his misses are tip ins .. btw. he has 7 offensive rebounds per game so far and DJ 2.5

Still don't know your angle here unless it's to show us how much Detroit Pistons basketball you watch.

Drummond has the ball 2x as much as Jordan does... whether that's by design, skill, luck, tornadoes, drought, locusts, et al... and that could lead to a ton of "hack-a-free throw" attempts just like it has with Jordan.