Bennett or Payne

[Kevin Glasshands [enjin:6642795]]

Guys, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. We gave up a lottery protect pick for Payne, meaning that in order for it to become their pick, we have to make the playoffs. When is the last time we did that?

Everybody complained when we traded Wes Johnson cause we had to give up a 1st rounder to get rid of him. Well guess what, they're getting a second rounder because our record fell under the protection of the pick every year.

[bleedspeed]

Guys, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. We gave up a lottery protect pick for Payne, meaning that in order for it to become their pick, we have to make the playoffs. When is the last time we did that?

Everybody complained when we traded Wes Johnson cause we had to give up a 1st rounder to get rid of him. Well guess what, they're getting a second rounder because our record fell under the protection of the pick every year.

If Flip sold this trade on us not giving up a 1st ever then how does he still have a job?

Is it to much to ask that we make moves to get in the playoffs and win and still hold assets to improve the team? That is what makes this trade bad. It not only will costs us if we win, but it also holds us back from ever winning in the first place.

[Carlos Danger]

If Flip sold this trade on us not giving up a 1st ever then how does he still have a job?

Is it to much to ask that we make moves to get in the playoffs and win and still hold assets to improve the team? That is what makes this trade bad. It not only will costs us if we win, but it also holds us back from ever winning in the first place.

That deal never happened on Flip's watch. Kahn drafted Wes and Kahn traded him. According to BBReference, we got back three 2nd round picks. It doesn't say who those turned out to be (and I'm assuming we later dealt or sold some of them), but still - once we determined Wes was a bust, it was probably the best that we could have hoped to get back. Does anyone know/remember what happened to the 2nd round picks?

July 27, 2012: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Minnesota Timberwolves with a future 1st round draft pick to the Phoenix Suns; the New Orleans Hornets traded a future 2nd round draft pick, a future 2nd round draft pick and a future 2nd round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the New Orleans Hornets traded Jerome Dyson and Brad Miller to the Phoenix Suns; and the Phoenix Suns traded Robin Lopez, Hakim Warrick and cash to the New Orleans Hornets.

[bleedspeed]

Carlos. I know that, but I was just saying if Flip didn't plan to give up a 1st for Payne then he should quit right now. That is not an excuse to say we won't make the playoffs over that period. History says we won't but if that is the plan then we as fans should be done.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Neither. They're both trash except one makes more money than the other.

[Carlos Danger]

Carlos. I know that, but I was just saying if Flip didn't plan to give up a 1st for Payne then he should quit right now. That is not an excuse to say we won't make the playoffs over that period. History says we won't but if that is the plan then we as fans should be done.

Bleed, I'm not a fan of the Payne deal - like most people on here. But we have to remember two things:

1.) Bad deals happen by all GMs. But if you make more good deals than bad deals - you should be fine. Unfortunately in Kahn's case...it seemed like more bad than good.

2.) You can't always judge a deal right away. Often (with more time) we can look back on a deal and realize the player (or pick) we gave up wasn't very good. Or maybe the guy or pick we got back was flipped into something useful. I have my fingers crossed that will be the case on the Payne trade. Hopefully he can be a backup/rotational guy and the pick we gave up doesn't become better than that. Time will tell. But yeah, right now I feel like we got the short end of the stick on the Payne trade.

[Monster]

I voted Bennett...much more upside than Payne.

But the real issue has been how disappointing both these guys have been so far. The dropoff in their performance from college to the pros is Stauskas-like. Bennett at UNLV was a physically dominant, sweet-shooting efficient scorer. Payne at MSU was a smart, hustling glue guy...a coach's dream who could always be relied upon to make the big play. It's hard to see either of these guys in their NBA performance.

If either of these guys can rediscover their college game, we will have our starter at PF. I'm not giving up, but not holding my breath either.

Part of why Bennett hasn't been able to show what he had in college is injuries and that's a big reason I don't have hope for the guy. He can't stay on the floor. 109 games over the last 2 years and a number of those games he wasn't remotely healthy. Add to that he is undersized and has a career shoring percentage of under 40% and he is a PF which is pretty brutally bad it makes Dwill's first 2 years look kinda good. His upside is obviously higher than Payne because of his age and if he can somewhow stay healthy maybe he can do something.

Payne is tall and pretty athletic that's about all that he has going for him right now. Ok in theory he can shoot but hasn't shown it yet.

I can't vote for either guy I just can't unless you are talking Euro career in which case I might say Payne. lol We are probably stuck with both of them so you hope for tech best but anything remotely worthwhile from these guys is a bonus at this point. My prediction is a PF will be moved this offseason either a young guy or NB because there are just too many of them. To have all of them and I wouldn't be surprised if Flip would like to bring Hummel back for cheap.

[KiwiMatt]

I voted Bennett...much more upside than Payne.

But the real issue has been how disappointing both these guys have been so far. The dropoff in their performance from college to the pros is Stauskas-like. Bennett at UNLV was a physically dominant, sweet-shooting efficient scorer. Payne at MSU was a smart, hustling glue guy...a coach's dream who could always be relied upon to make the big play. It's hard to see either of these guys in their NBA performance.

If either of these guys can rediscover their college game, we will have our starter at PF. I'm not giving up, but not holding my breath either.

Part of why Bennett hasn't been able to show what he had in college is injuries and that's a big reason I don't have hope for the guy. He can't stay on the floor. 109 games over the last 2 years and a number of those games he wasn't remotely healthy. Add to that he is undersized and has a career shoring percentage of under 40% and he is a PF which is pretty brutally bad it makes Dwill's first 2 years look kinda good. His upside is obviously higher than Payne because of his age and if he can somewhow stay healthy maybe he can do something.

Payne is tall and pretty athletic that's about all that he has going for him right now. Ok in theory he can shoot but hasn't shown it yet.

I can't vote for either guy I just can't unless you are talking Euro career in which case I might say Payne. lol We are probably stuck with both of them so you hope for tech best but anything remotely worthwhile from these guys is a bonus at this point. My prediction is a PF will be moved this offseason either a young guy or NB because there are just too many of them. To have all of them and I wouldn't be surprised if Flip would like to bring Hummel back for cheap.

Notice I said 'career' and not 'NBA career'.

God they could both be playing with a 40 year old Starbury in China in a couple of seasons for all we know.

But in all seriousness this this thread wasn't only just to wind up Cam, it was to guage if anyone out there has any faith in either of these two being the answer to our PF crisis.

I chose Bennett. He has all the tool, I just think something is missing mentally and I think that is his confidence. Can he develop into a starter, I'm not sure. But he could at least be a Patrick Patterson type player. As Cam mentioned though you don't play a back up stretch four 6 mil a season.

Payne has legit size, but I fear he is going to be Dante Cunningham 2.0. Not a bad guy to have coming off the bench, but not the guy you want starting if your #1 PF goes down.

[bleedspeed]

Payne has legit size, but I fear he is going to be Dante Cunningham 2.0. Not a bad guy to have coming off the bench, but not the guy you want starting if your #1 PF goes down.

Why insult Cunnningham?

[Monster]

Payne has legit size, but I fear he is going to be Dante Cunningham 2.0. Not a bad guy to have coming off the bench, but not the guy you want starting if your #1 PF goes down.

Why insult Cunnningham?

If Payne becomes as good and Dante the trade looks half decent.