Minnesota Sports Forum

Does anybody else think there's nothing new here? Flip is asked all the time if he is stepping down, and his usual answer is that he is the coach until he is not the coach. Today when he was asked the same question, he answered that he is the coach until he thinks they need to go in a different direction. As opposed to making a coaching change because he thinks they're going in the right direction! Come on, guys...Flip wasn't about to announce today that they are beginning a search for a new coach, or any other day either. We are most likely to find out that Flip is going in a different direction on the day that he announces a press conference when there is nothing else going on...and then introduces the new coach.

I'm still hoping Glen forces Flip to make a change, and today didn't make me more or less hopeful. Yesterday, I thought there was a 60% chance of Flip returning, and a 40% chance of him stepping down. After today's blockbuster press conference, I think there is a 60% chance of Flip returning, and a 40% chance of him stepping down.

If pure negativity is all someone gets from an article like this than I don't know what to say. He also said defense and 3 point shooting are the 2 biggest priorities this summer. He also mentioned he'd like the opportunity to coach a healthy team with this young roster. Personally I think the best way to play this is to get your feelers out on coaches this summer and if the right one comes along hire em, otherwise wait until next summer. Then we can hopefully get a good candidate while already having 2 years of development for most of the young players.

Long and Grey's last posts are pretty good I don't need to say more.

Also Abe cracks me up in a good way.

Immediately after Flip's press conference two years ago when he was introduced as our new PBO I posted on this board that Flip would eventually name himself head coach. What else could anyone conclude from Flip's answer when asked if he would ever coach again. His answer was: "once you're a coach you're always a coach." He couldn't have been more transparent. He couldn't even get himself to say something like: "I can't rule it out, but right now my sole focus is on doing the job I've been hired to do." No, Flip's answer told us that he sees himself professionally as a head basketball coach. In his mind, that's who he is, period exclamation point. And having talked with him last summer one-on-one, I can tell you he also has a very high opinion of himself as a head coach.

So I never believed Flip made any serious effort to find a replacement for Adelman. Last year's search process was, in my view, a sham. Flip came back here as PBO knowing that Adelman was close to retirement. Flip had already lost his head coaching positions in Minnesota, Detroit and Washington and no doubt he did not consider any of those terminations justified. Yet, no NBA teams were beating down his door to bring him in as their head coach two years ago and Flip, a guy who sees an NBA head coach every time he looks in the mirror, felt trapped in an unfulfilling broadcasting career. So Flip went back to the door through which he first entered the NBA. And Glen opened the door again to a guy for whom he has a deep almost father-like affection. Glen didn't have a head coaching position available, but he did need a PBO and he handed it over to Flip. Of course Flip knew what he'd do with that position after Adelman left and he knew Glen well enough to know Glen wouldn't interfere. The rest is history.

So no, I'm not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

Lip, I don't disagree with your basic premise...that Flip sees himself as a great coach and has always been his first choice for the job. But your narrative that his search process was a sham doesn't hold up based on what we have learned. By the time Flip named himself, we only knew for sure about the Dave Joerger pursuit. But that was an actual offer, which in and of itself makes Flip's efforts more than a sham...if Dave accepts, Flip isn't the coach. And since then we have learned of several other pursuits. Chauncey Billups disclosed last week that Flip offered him an assistant job for one year, with a promise of a head coach role in 2015-6. A month ago one of the principals in Glen's ownership group confirmed to me that they went hard after Fred Hoiberg last summer. There were strong rumors that Izzo was courted quite strongly (although I don't know if that has been confirmed). And last month when Donovan indicated he wants to coach in the NBA, the article said the Wolves went after him last summer but he was not interested. That's 3 or 4 real efforts to find a suitable coach, and since so many of them are just being revealed recently, who knows how many more were strongly considered or even offered the job (SVG has been rumored, for instance)? The fact that Flip ignored washed-up coaches like George Karl does not support the narrative that his search process was a sham.

While you are correct that Flip really wants to continue coaching, and even more so after the disappointing 2014-5, you are ignoring the fact that there is a power struggle going on right now between the ownership group (or at least the 90% not named Flip) and Flip. The ownership group is saying publicly that Flip is doing a good job, but Glen also continues to say that he wants the PBO and coaching role to be separate. And other than the KG sellouts, they can't be pleased with the empty seats in the arena night after night...or with the results on the court, for that matter. You're right that Glen likes Flip...heck, he's a likable guy...but he likes money more. And he's savvy enough to know that Flip is hurting his investment. And ultimately, Glen signs Flip's enormous paychecks and has the final say in the matter.

Having said that, I still think there is a 60% chance that Flip prevails and continues coaching next year. Glen is a ruthless businessman, but he also knows that Flip didn't get a chance to really coach this year because of all the injuries. Flip may be able to convince him to give him one more year for that reason. But Glen is no dummy, and he is aware of the negative press about Flip's antiquated coaching philosophy. Glen didn't get to be a billionaire by placing the wrong guy in top positions, and his half a billion investment in the Wolves is more than just a hobby. That's why even though my friend is telling me that ownership is happy with Flip, I still think there is a 40% chance that we have a new coach next year. And that's what I'm hoping for.

I'm with Lip on this one.

Flip Saunders was handed a golden opportunity to be one of the most powerful non-players in the NBA. Why would he walk away from that? I don't know what happened with his "coaching search"... Maybe he put out lowball offers. Maybe he made it obvious his interest wasn't genuine. Maybe it was all a smokescreen. Maybe they were legit. What we've learned from Flip a bit this season is that while he's open with the media, he's savvy and may even be pulling a fast one behind the scenes.

In all honesty, I might be more worried if Flip didn't try to finagle his way into both roles when they were there waiting for him. You want to have an astute GM at the helm... and getting both roles for himself was an astute move. The right move? Ummm... well....

Well, at least he acknowledged the need for defense and 3-point shooting.

Flip has allowed historically good 3-point shooters to shoot 3's; that's not really the problem. Kevin Martin and Mo Williams, for example, had a green light this year and launched a fair amount of 3's.

The problem is that he doesn't discourage long 2-point jumpers - the worst shot in basketball - by the kinds of sets he runs.

A classic example is that god-awful high pick and pop play with LaVine at PG and Young/Bennett/Payne (pick your poison) at PF. It involved the PF setting a screen (and usually a very lazy one at that) on LaVine's man, then popping out to about 20 feet. LaVine, rather than trying to turn the corner and penetrate, would instead throw an equally lazy pass - often that got picked off - back to the PF. At that point, the PF was free to either launch a 20-footer or try to take his man off the dribble. Either way, if I'm the opposing coach, I love, love, love this set. It runs time off the shot clock and puts absolutely no pressure on my defense!

A modern day coach would have taken a different approach. He would have instructed the PF setting the screen to 1) actually set a good screen to begin with, giving LaVine the option to penetrate the lane, 2) roll hard to the hoop if his man hedges too early, OR 3) pop out beyond the 3-point line. There would be absolutely no in between. Whatever you do, DO NOT receive the ball in no-man's land at 20 feet.

As it turns out, Thad shot 30.3% on shots from 16 feet out to the 3-point arc with Minnesota. He shot 29.2% on shots beyond the arc. With Brooklyn, he's shot 38% from beyond the arc. Now can anyone tell me why the hell you would ever want to set up a play with Thad Young popping out two feet below the arc? It's simple math, yet Flip refuses to look at this type of data, instead looking at 3-point shooting as a binary issue (you either are a 3-point shooter or you aren't). This is where he is woefully behind the times and it pisses me off.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore! (That's for you Lloyd).

longstrangetrip wrote:Lip, I don't disagree with your basic premise...that Flip sees himself as a great coach and has always been his first choice for the job. But your narrative that his search process was a sham doesn't hold up based on what we have learned. By the time Flip named himself, we only knew for sure about the Dave Joerger pursuit. But that was an actual offer, which in and of itself makes Flip's efforts more than a sham...if Dave accepts, Flip isn't the coach. And since then we have learned of several other pursuits. Chauncey Billups disclosed last week that Flip offered him an assistant job for one year, with a promise of a head coach role in 2015-6. A month ago one of the principals in Glen's ownership group confirmed to me that they went hard after Fred Hoiberg last summer. There were strong rumors that Izzo was courted quite strongly (although I don't know if that has been confirmed). And last month when Donovan indicated he wants to coach in the NBA, the article said the Wolves went after him last summer but he was not interested. That's 3 or 4 real efforts to find a suitable coach, and since so many of them are just being revealed recently, who knows how many more were strongly considered or even offered the job (SVG has been rumored, for instance)? The fact that Flip ignored washed-up coaches like George Karl does not support the narrative that his search process was a sham.

While you are correct that Flip really wants to continue coaching, and even more so after the disappointing 2014-5, you are ignoring the fact that there is a power struggle going on right now between the ownership group (or at least the 90% not named Flip) and Flip. The ownership group is saying publicly that Flip is doing a good job, but Glen also continues to say that he wants the PBO and coaching role to be separate. And other than the KG sellouts, they can't be pleased with the empty seats in the arena night after night...or with the results on the court, for that matter. You're right that Glen likes Flip...heck, he's a likable guy...but he likes money more. And he's savvy enough to know that Flip is hurting his investment. And ultimately, Glen signs Flip's enormous paychecks and has the final say in the matter.

Having said that, I still think there is a 60% chance that Flip prevails and continues coaching next year. Glen is a ruthless businessman, but he also knows that Flip didn't get a chance to really coach this year because of all the injuries. Flip may be able to convince him to give him
one more year for that reason. But Glen is no dummy, and he is aware of the negative press about Flip's antiquated coaching philosophy. Glen didn't get to be a billionaire by placing the wrong guy in top positions, and his half a billion investment in the Wolves is more than just a hobby. That's why even though my friend is telling me that ownership is happy with Flip, I still think there is a 40% chance that we have a new coach next year. And that's what I'm hoping for.

Long - I may have overstated things a bit referring to the search process as a sham, but I suspect the pursuit of other candidates was less than whole-hearted. My information from a very reliable source is that the Wolves did not seriously consider Hoiberg. I was told they did pursue Izzo, but I suspect that Flip knew Izzo was unlikely to accept. I'm not sure about the Joerger thing. We only know what was reported, but who knows what really happened.

Honestly, I'm fine with giving Flip another year as head coach. He knows the game, knows the players and has a track record of success as a head coach. He needs to make some adjustments to adjust his offensive philosophy to the modern NBA game. And I think he needs to add a defensive guru to his coaching staff. Otherwise, I look forward to seeng how well he does with a healthier team and more experienced young guys.

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Lip, I don't disagree with your basic premise...that Flip sees himself as a great coach and has always been his first choice for the job. But your narrative that his search process was a sham doesn't hold up based on what we have learned. By the time Flip named himself, we only knew for sure about the Dave Joerger pursuit. But that was an actual offer, which in and of itself makes Flip's efforts more than a sham...if Dave accepts, Flip isn't the coach. And since then we have learned of several other pursuits. Chauncey Billups disclosed last week that Flip offered him an assistant job for one year, with a promise of a head coach role in 2015-6. A month ago one of the principals in Glen's ownership group confirmed to me that they went hard after Fred Hoiberg last summer. There were strong rumors that Izzo was courted quite strongly (although I don't know if that has been confirmed). And last month when Donovan indicated he wants to coach in the NBA, the article said the Wolves went after him last summer but he was not interested. That's 3 or 4 real efforts to find a suitable coach, and since so many of them are just being revealed recently, who knows how many more were strongly considered or even offered the job (SVG has been rumored, for instance)? The fact that Flip ignored washed-up coaches like George Karl does not support the narrative that his search process was a sham.

While you are correct that Flip really wants to continue coaching, and even more so after the disappointing 2014-5, you are ignoring the fact that there is a power struggle going on right now between the ownership group (or at least the 90% not named Flip) and Flip. The ownership group is saying publicly that Flip is doing a good job, but Glen also continues to say that he wants the PBO and coaching role to be separate. And other than the KG sellouts, they can't be pleased with the empty seats in the arena night after night...or with the results on the court, for that matter. You're right that Glen likes Flip...heck, he's a likable guy...but he likes money more. And he's savvy enough to know that Flip is hurting his investment. And ultimately, Glen signs Flip's enormous paychecks and has the final say in the matter.

Having said that, I still think there is a 60% chance that Flip prevails and continues coaching next year. Glen is a ruthless businessman, but he also knows that Flip didn't get a chance to really coach this year because of all the injuries. Flip may be able to convince him to give him
one more year for that reason. But Glen is no dummy, and he is aware of the negative press about Flip's antiquated coaching philosophy. Glen didn't get to be a billionaire by placing the wrong guy in top positions, and his half a billion investment in the Wolves is more than just a hobby. That's why even though my friend is telling me that ownership is happy with Flip, I still think there is a 40% chance that we have a new coach next year. And that's what I'm hoping for.

Long - I may have overstated things a bit referring to the search process as a sham, but I suspect the pursuit of other candidates was less than whole-hearted. My information from a very reliable source is that the Wolves did not seriously consider Hoiberg. I was told they did pursue Izzo, but I suspect that Flip knew Izzo was unlikely to accept. I'm not sure about the Joerger thing. We only know what was reported, but who knows what really happened.

Honestly, I'm fine with giving Flip another year as head coach. He knows the game, knows the players and has a track record of success as a head coach. He needs to make some adjustments to adjust his offensive philosophy to the modern NBA game. And I think he needs to add a defensive guru to his coaching staff. Otherwise, I look forward to seeng how well he does with a healthier team and more experienced young guys.

"Less than whole-hearted" is a fair description. Flip is obviously conflicted. On one hand, he believes in himself as a coach (more than we do, to be sure) and doesn't want his final season to be such a disaster. On the other hand, his boss is publicly saying he wants coach and PBO to be two different guys...and don't think Glen's words aren't a little stronger privately. I do believe the Wolves made a bona fide offer to Joerger, and the Billups situation as described by him sounds legit too. We can only speculate about Izzo, Hoiberg and others. My conclusion is that Flip performed a bona fide search, but clearly his heart wasn't in it.

If he coaches another year, I'll accept it and hope that he does what he says with respect to 3-point shooting and defense. But color me skeptical.

I think it comes down to Flip being picky and wanting to find the right coach, but since we're early in development he's okay letting it ride. You don't go offer Joerger the job if you aren't serious about not coaching. As for Flip comment I think it comes down to once a coach always a coach. Look at all the former coaches in broadcasting. You will always think of them as a coach.