Carlos Danger wrote:This one looks like split, so I'll toss in my thought process. I voted "meh". Thad didn't play great here. I'm not saying he's a terrible player. It just didn't look like a good fit here. And that's all I really used to rate this deal. KG hasn't done much either obviously. But I believe the the trade was done because they had concluded Thad wasn't going to be part of the team going forward so they wanted to open up playing time for Bennett and Payne to evaluate them. Anything they get from KG was to be a bonus. For that reason "meh" IMO. I wish they could have gotten more for Thad. But I have to assume they tried and the market value just wasn't there.
Considering that Flip said that they tried to give that pick originally to the Nets for KG instead of Thad in the first place, I don't think we can safely say that they tried to get the best deal for him. Flip's clearly been trying to get KG for a while.
Also I didn't like Thad either, but to be fair, the time he was here he was put into way too big of role with all the injuries and looked a lot better once people starting coming back.
We would have gotten nothing for Thad or worse had him here another year at his insane contract. Instead we got KG. No problem with this trade whatsoever.
thedoper wrote:We would have gotten nothing for Thad or worse had him here another year at his insane contract. Instead we got KG. No problem with this trade whatsoever.
I guess it comes down to what people think the Wolves could have gotten for Young.
Considering he was traded for a 1st (only a few months prior)... getting a very long-in-the-truth vet for limited minutes for only 5 games seems like a small return. Especially considering he was playing his best ball of the season for a few weeks prior to the trade. Basically, he had returned to playing like Thad Young who garnered a 1st round pick.
Personally, I think we as fans were duped a bit and the Garnett trade is part of some larger behind-the-scenes stuff that has nothing to do with wins on the court. Based on the reasoning for other trades where even a 2nd round pick was deemed something of value... I don't see how 5 games of Garnett while he spends most of his time away from the team can be considered good.
[note: yes. young had to go. yes. the wolves could have received more in return for him.]
alexftbl8181 wrote:kinda ironic long that you say a PF who can't rebound or defend and who could leave at the end of the year has little to no value, when FLIP GAVE UP A 1ST ROUND PICK FOR THE GUY NOT BUT A FEW MONTHS AGO. I find it hard to believe his value dropped that much over a 3 month span
Yep, not defending Flip's giving up a first for a 1-year Young rental, not at all...I was pretty consistently clear from the start that Flip screwed the pooch on that one. This trade was about Flip admitting he had made a bad decision last summer on Young, and trying to fix his mistake in the best way possible. A lot of posters here postulate that we could have gotten much more for Thad Young. Maybe there was another GM jonesing for an undersized, non-rebounding, non-defending PF only under control for a few more months, but I'd be surprised. I'll take KG over the pie-in-the-sky offers you guys are saying had to be out there.
thedoper wrote:We would have gotten nothing for Thad or worse had him here another year at his insane contract. Instead we got KG. No problem with this trade whatsoever.
I guess it comes down to what people think the Wolves could have gotten for Young.
Considering he was traded for a 1st (only a few months prior)... getting a vet for limited minutes for only 5 games seems like a small return. Especially considering he was playing his best ball of the season for a few weeks prior to the trade. Basically, he had returned to playing like Thad Young who garnered a 1st round pick.
Personally, I think we as fans were duped a bit and the Garnett trade is part of some larger behind-the-scenes stuff that has nothing to do with wins on the court. Based on the reasoning for other trades where even a 2nd round pick was deemed something of value... I don't see how 5 games of Garnett while he spends most of his time away from the team can be considered good.
[note: yes. young had to go. yes. the wolves could have received more in return for him.]
How can you assume anyone would give up value for an underperforming player with a big contract who has stated a desire to opt out? His best ball of the season (2 weeks of the old Thad) has to be weighed against the rest of his shit output for the season. But this is always the funniest part of these deals to me. The assumptions that there were great deals out there waiting for our shit. I don't always trust Flip's judgement but any GM gets a feel of what is out there for his assets. Who on earth would have given up a first for 3 months of Thad? The answer is obviously no one.
thedoper wrote:We would have gotten nothing for Thad or worse had him here another year at his insane contract. Instead we got KG. No problem with this trade whatsoever.
I guess it comes down to what people think the Wolves could have gotten for Young.
Considering he was traded for a 1st (only a few months prior)... getting a vet for limited minutes for only 5 games seems like a small return. Especially considering he was playing his best ball of the season for a few weeks prior to the trade. Basically, he had returned to playing like Thad Young who garnered a 1st round pick.
Personally, I think we as fans were duped a bit and the Garnett trade is part of some larger behind-the-scenes stuff that has nothing to do with wins on the court. Based on the reasoning for other trades where even a 2nd round pick was deemed something of value... I don't see how 5 games of Garnett while he spends most of his time away from the team can be considered good.
[note: yes. young had to go. yes. the wolves could have received more in return for him.]
How can you assume anyone would give up value for an underperforming player with a big contract who has stated a desire to opt out? His best ball of the season (2 weeks of the old Thad) has to be weighed against the rest of his shit output for the season. But this is always the funniest part of these deals to me. The assumptions that there were great deals out there waiting for our shit. I don't always trust Flip's judgement but any GM gets a feel of what is out there for his assets. Who on earth would have given up a first for 3 months of Thad? The answer is obviously no one.
But what the Wolves got in return was a terrible deal.
It's not like we're wondering if they could have done better. Outside of a marketing spin on it... it's very difficult to do worse. And even though they win just by having Young gone... I don't see it as a ship JR Rider out for anything just to get rid of him deal.
Thad Young is a legit NBA player. He has value. 1st round value? That's obviously questionable. But the Wolves got minimal on-court (or future) value back for him in this trade. And I don't think it's because Garnett developed knee soreness as a surprise. I'm 100% convinced the Wolves and Garnett were well aware of each other's intentions before the trade ever happened.
Basically, by voting that it's a good trade... people are choosing nothing over Thad Young. Fair enough. I have a difficult time believing they couldn't find somebody or something with more value than that.
Thad was on the market for a year before the wolves (Flip) were stupid enough to offer up a first rounder for an undersized PF with one year locked in for the team and an option for the player. It screams Bud all over again but with a horrible contract on top of it. No other team was interested in him at that price.
Q, you always talk about a player having one skill that he excels at. What is that for Thad? He was a poor offensive player (TS% of 49), a terrible rebounder (5.1/gm), a lousy defender. What am I missing?
For those who think we should have gotten more. From who? The only team with any interest in him was Brooklyn, who wouldn't give up KG for a first to start the season, but most likely realized he was leaving at the end of the season. Brooklyn, likely the only team with a worse front office than the wolves. Does anyone know of another offer out there?
This trade has nothing to do with the wolves throwing away a first on Thad, and only that they were able to dump a bad contract for an expiring one. Anything that KG might have accomplished or added is just icing on the cake.
Abe, I seriously am asking this. Did the wolves dupe you into purchasing season tickets for a 20 win season? It is the only thing I can think of that would have you continually harp on this "bad guy marketing campaign" of theirs. All businesses try and promote their product so why should the wolves be any different?
sjm34 wrote:Thad was on the market for a year before the wolves (Flip) were stupid enough to offer up a first rounder for an undersized PF with one year locked in for the team and an option for the player. It screams Bud all over again but with a horrible contract on top of it. No other team was interested in him at that price.
Q, you always talk about a player having one skill that he excels at. What is that for Thad? He was a poor offensive player (TS% of 49), a terrible rebounder (5.1/gm), a lousy defender. What am I missing?
For those who think we should have gotten more. From who? The only team with any interest in him was Brooklyn, who wouldn't give up KG for a first to start the season, but most likely realized he was leaving at the end of the season. Brooklyn, likely the only team with a worse front office than the wolves. Does anyone know of another offer out there?
This trade has nothing to do with the wolves throwing away a first on Thad, and only that they were able to dump a bad contract for an expiring one. Anything that KG might have accomplished or added is just icing on the cake.
Abe, I seriously am asking this. Did the wolves dupe you into purchasing season tickets for a 20 win season? It is the only thing I can think of that would have you continually harp on this "bad guy marketing campaign" of theirs. All businesses try and promote their product so why should the wolves be any different?
I have no problem with the Wolves using Garnett to sell tickets. It's a clever ploy.
I have a problem with them trying to dupe the fans into thinking the trade was for something more than that. I think I've been pretty clear in this distinction.
[note: i'm all for tanking when appropriate. but call a spade a spade and don't insult the fanbase... or more accurately... i try to let the fans who seem to have fallen for it in on the ruse.]
You can't argue two opposing sides and claim they're the same. Some of you are saying we traded Young to get "something" for him because he let it be known to the FO that he was opting out. Fine. But do NOT also argue that the reason the Wolves so wanted to trade Young was because of his contract next year. It's a contradictory stance for an argument like this. It's one or the other, not both.
Also, if you argue the side of "we knew Young was leaving", then you look like an even bigger fool by saying/thinking we got rid of him to get an expiring. AT THE POINT YOUNG SAYS HE'S OPTING OUT, HE IS THEN AN EXPIRING CONTRACT. Trading expiring contracts that have roughly the same value is silly.
This trade all comes back to two things. One, Abe continues to say, is that the Wolves wanted to get juice back into a bad basketball product... and it worked. Sellout crowds and more people interested in the team because their long lost son came home. Whatever. The other comes back to Flip Saunders letting emotion and cuddly memories with KG affect his decision-making. He has wanted KG back in Minnesota for the longest. I believe he even said he tried to get KG within the K-Love trade. Are you kidding me? That means at season's start, Flip valued KG worth a first-rounder. Get the fuck out of here.
Essentially, Flip has wiped his ass with two first rounders this season. The Kevin Garnett trade and the Adreian Payne trade were s-h-i-t-t-y. SHITTY.
"[flip] has wanted KG back in Minnesota for the longest. I believe he even said he tried to get KG within the K-Love trade. Are you kidding me? That means at season's start, Flip valued KG worth a first-rounder."
THIS is why none of us can realistically assume that the Wolves got the best value for Thad Young. Flip had a target on KG and his best chip to get him was Young.
Plenty of rumors, and I understand rumors aren't always truthful, suggested that other teams had interest in acquiring Young. Let's not forget that Toronto had been linked to Thad. Also, Sacramento was in the market for a stretch forward too. Guess what those teams didn't have, though? Kevin "NBA Jesus" Garnett.
Stefan Bondy: Misconception that the Thaddeus Young-KG trade evolved quickly and suddenly near deadline. Billy King had been working on it all year. Twitter @SBondyNYDN
Darren Wolfson: Billy King to Nets website: "We're NOT making (trade) calls. Calls are coming in." Funny, #Twolves will say Nets did the calling on Thad. Twitter @DarrenWolfson
My opinion: Flip worked relentlessly to get KG in Minnesota. That was a main goal for him. He saw an opportunity to do it and did. It's over now, but yes, it was a bad trade. Now we get to overpay KG for his services AS A FREE AGENT... which is what we could have done in the first place. Whatever.
