Wolves vs Warriors GDT: Lavine is is so bad.. cut him!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Just watched the replay of the second half, as I couldn't stay up long enough to watch the whole thing. The midwest is so much better than the east coast for night time sports. Games start late enough where work isn't an issue and they aren't so late that sleep becomes an issue.

- LaVine wow'ed me in this game. And he only had a few WTF moments. He also did most of his damage playing off the ball, with Brown running PG. That's his sweet spot and he caught fire last night.

- Wiggins had a terrific first half, but was defended very well in the 2nd half and got sloppy with the ball. However, he was good at finding Zach and had a number of nice assists.

- Payne.....3 rebounds. Unacceptable, especially against a Warriors team that doesn't field a bunch of giants along the front line.

- Steph Curry is the most skilled player in the NBA. I don't know if he's the best, but he's the most skilled.

- 3 point shooting kept us in this game. Refreshing.

- Martin again with an anemic performance. If LaVine keeps this up, especially the 3-point shooting, it really does make Martin expendable this offseason. Again, he's on a decent contract, so I wouldn't go for a salary dump. But if we can get a draft pick for him or a blue-collar rebounding PF, I'd make that move.

- Budinger has come back down to earth a bit after a really nice stretch of games. Let's hope someone out there is interested in trading for him.

- Lots of moral victories last night. The fact the Warriors had to play their starters throughout the 4th was a huge surprise.

[Lipoli390]

Just watched the replay of the second half, as I couldn't stay up long enough to watch the whole thing. The midwest is so much better than the east coast for night time sports. Games start late enough where work isn't an issue and they aren't so late that sleep becomes an issue.

- LaVine wow'ed me in this game. And he only had a few WTF moments. He also did most of his damage playing off the ball, with Brown running PG. That's his sweet spot and he caught fire last night.

- Wiggins had a terrific first half, but was defended very well in the 2nd half and got sloppy with the ball. However, he was good at finding Zach and had a number of nice assists.

- Payne.....3 rebounds. Unacceptable, especially against a Warriors team that doesn't field a bunch of giants along the front line.

- Steph Curry is the most skilled player in the NBA. I don't know if he's the best, but he's the most skilled.

- 3 point shooting kept us in this game. Refreshing.

- Martin again with an anemic performance. If LaVine keeps this up, especially the 3-point shooting, it really does make Martin expendable this offseason. Again, he's on a decent contract, so I wouldn't go for a salary dump. But if we can get a draft pick for him or a blue-collar rebounding PF, I'd make that move.

- Budinger has come back down to earth a bit after a really nice stretch of games. Let's hope someone out there is interested in trading for him.

- Lots of moral victories last night. The fact the Warriors had to play their starters throughout the 4th was a huge surprise.

Ditto on all your points, Q.

Honestly, Wiggins looks tired and I think his fatigue showed in the second half. The Warriors were also double teaming him a lot and that's something he'll need to adjust to. The good news is that he showed he has a nice knack for passing out of double teams.

Payne is pathetic and I have very little hope for his development given the fact that he played 4 years of college ball under a top notch coach and has not been asked to play out of position or do anything extraordinary.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I HATE PAYNE.

I have a challenge for you Cam: For just one week, no anti Payne or Bennett talk from you. No one is going to forget how much you hate each of them in 7 days.

Can you do it?

It's not a challenge I can do as long as the Wolves play. I enjoy watching Wiggins and LaVine, and even Budinger over the last several weeks, but knowing what we gave up to get Payne and watching how awful his play is... I feel compelled to bring it up. Oh well.

[TheGrey08]

Just watched the replay of the second half, as I couldn't stay up long enough to watch the whole thing. The midwest is so much better than the east coast for night time sports. Games start late enough where work isn't an issue and they aren't so late that sleep becomes an issue.

- LaVine wow'ed me in this game. And he only had a few WTF moments. He also did most of his damage playing off the ball, with Brown running PG. That's his sweet spot and he caught fire last night.

- Wiggins had a terrific first half, but was defended very well in the 2nd half and got sloppy with the ball. However, he was good at finding Zach and had a number of nice assists.

- Payne.....3 rebounds. Unacceptable, especially against a Warriors team that doesn't field a bunch of giants along the front line.

- Steph Curry is the most skilled player in the NBA. I don't know if he's the best, but he's the most skilled.

- 3 point shooting kept us in this game. Refreshing.

- Martin again with an anemic performance. If LaVine keeps this up, especially the 3-point shooting, it really does make Martin expendable this offseason. Again, he's on a decent contract, so I wouldn't go for a salary dump. But if we can get a draft pick for him or a blue-collar rebounding PF, I'd make that move.

- Budinger has come back down to earth a bit after a really nice stretch of games. Let's hope someone out there is interested in trading for him.

- Lots of moral victories last night. The fact the Warriors had to play their starters throughout the 4th was a huge surprise.

More times than not I was seeing Lavine bringing the ball up and starting the offense with Brown playing off the ball. He was doing a lot of damage that way. If he can continue to bring his turnover rate down and also get better at finding guys (he found quite a few last night who missed their shots too) he has a chance to play some PG.

[mrhockey89]

I think the silver lining of Rubio being out is that this experience is clearly giving LaVine the experience needed to gain the confidence in his game to grow a lot faster than he might have otherwise, as well as faster than expected.

There was an ESPN article earlier this year about LaVine being the "worst" player in the NBA. After a 37 point outburst last night, I think we can put that one to rest in a hurry. LaVine looked lost earlier this year...all his passes were safe passes that didn't help develop the play or break down the defense whatsoever. We're seeing a lot more to his game right now. Additionally, he's already a better pro than he was a college player at UCLA in his short time there. Flip's looking like a genius for that pick right now. And to think, he and Wiggins are both only 20.

But of course Flip isn't looking nearly as smart for trading for Payne at this point. There's really nothing more I can say that hasn't been said before by me or someone else on this board so I'll leave this one alone.

I am going to disagree with Curry being the most skilled player in the NBA. I think that has to belong to LeBron. LeBron can score on anyone just like Curry, he's an excellent passer just like Curry, but he's also a better rebounder and is an elite defender, which Curry isn't. And for those reasons, I give LeBron more credit because I consider those important skills.

The best part about last game is that it was fun to watch, while on the road giving the best team in the NBA all it could handle, while still potentially securing more lotto balls due to the Knicks loss.

[bleedspeed]

I said LaVine has a higher upside back in the summer. He just has more alpha to him and is a worker.

[The Rage Monster [enjin:8010341]]

The Payne hate is really getting out of hand. Sure he's looked bad and lost at times but he's also made nice plays and showed glimpses of what could be. Have we already for about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeufYTG5LuMgame...? And when's the last time a PF who wasn't a top pick came in and played real well? Maybe the Manimal but that's the only one from recent memory I can think of. Also when's the last time a rookie at any position was traded like that mid season and played well?

He may turn out to be a bust but it's stupid to not give him some time before making that judgement. LaVine's a perfect example of this, most people were down on him and ESPN even referred to him as the worst player in the league. Now we've got people on here comparing him to MJ and saying he has a higher ceiling than Wiggins (who people think has a chance to be the best player in the league). Let's cut out the constant unnecessary criticism and at least give Payne 1 full season with this team before we label him a bust.

[TAFKASP]

The Payne hate is really getting out of hand. Sure he's looked bad and lost at times but he's also made nice plays and showed glimpses of what could be. Have we already for about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeufYTG5LuMgame...? And when's the last time a PF who wasn't a top pick came in and played real well? Maybe the Manimal but that's the only one from recent memory I can think of. Also when's the last time a rookie at any position was traded like that mid season and played well?

He may turn out to be a bust but it's stupid to not give him some time before making that judgement. LaVine's a perfect example of this, most people were down on him and ESPN even referred to him as the worst player in the league. Now we've got people on here comparing him to MJ and saying he has a higher ceiling than Wiggins (who people think has a chance to be the best player in the league). Let's cut out the constant unnecessary criticism and at least give Payne 1 full season with this team before we label him a bust.

I'm not one to dump on a rookie but to me the issue isn't Payne's stats, it's his general look of total confusion. Combine that with his extremely awkward wind up shot and virtual lack of rebounding which at the 4 should be a focus and he gives more reason for concern than your average underperforming rookie.

I haven't given up hope, but I don't have any expectations of success like I do for Lavine, Bazz, or even Dieng.

[thedoper]

If the early treatment of Wiggins and Shabbaz were any indication at least we can know that everyone will talk about how much they love Payne if he starts to turn it around. I think its fair to say many Wolves fans have become damaged goods and have difficulty finding the positive.

[Coolbreeze44]

The Payne hate is really getting out of hand. Sure he's looked bad and lost at times but he's also made nice plays and showed glimpses of what could be. Have we already for about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeufYTG5LuMgame...? And when's the last time a PF who wasn't a top pick came in and played real well? Maybe the Manimal but that's the only one from recent memory I can think of. Also when's the last time a rookie at any position was traded like that mid season and played well?

He may turn out to be a bust but it's stupid to not give him some time before making that judgement. LaVine's a perfect example of this, most people were down on him and ESPN even referred to him as the worst player in the league. Now we've got people on here comparing him to MJ and saying he has a higher ceiling than Wiggins (who people think has a chance to be the best player in the league). Let's cut out the constant unnecessary criticism and at least give Payne 1 full season with this team before we label him a bust.

Not a big Payne fan, but I totally agree with you here. The ridicule he gets from this board is over the top. I'm waiting as you suggest till he has a chance to settle in. Just like I waited patiently on Wiggins and Lavine while they were routinely bashed by the membership.