CoolBreeze44 wrote:I'll tell you what Q is right about. Why can't we develop a shooter? Our best shooter is KAT, at least he's the guy I feel most comfortable watching shoot from the outside. Just sad that we don't have anyone who you can count on for consistent accuracy from the outside.
Agreed. Didn't watch, just saw the final and guessing we got outshot from 3 point land
*checks boxscore*
Holy crap! 14-35! My Dad and I were watching a couple of the games over the holidays and commenting how many times guys passed up the open 3 to step in and take the long 2. Maybe Rudez needs more burn here, I don't know, not sure either why we can't develop good outside shooters.
I've repeatedly seen exactly what you and your dad commented on and I've posted about it. It is obvious that our players are coached to pass up threes in favor of twos. Four consequences: (1) the team loses the benefit of three pointers, (2) players often end up with more contested and therefore more difficult two-point shots, (3) players lose the chance to develop their three-point shooting under game conditions, and (4) players over-think and fail to develop confidence in their shooting. The fact that T-Wolf players don't improve and often regress as shooters is not an accident or the result of some curse - it's the result of poor antiquated coaching.
SJM is right. The team and individual players like Zach and Belly are regressing. Even Wiggins is regressing in shooting efficiency. When a team regresses without any injury explanation it's a sure sign of poor coaching.
As a example of what good coaching can bring to a young team, recall the Wolves-Celtics game. The Wolves weren't just playing another young team, we were playing a team with a number of injuries that had us up against players who hadn't had a lot of time playing together. Yet, recall the Celtcs consistenly robust, crisp ball movement. Recall their solid picks. Recall how they all shot with confidence, not passing up threes for more contested twos, not hesitating, double-clutching then shooting out of rhythm like nearly every Wolves player does. Recall how they came out and got in on the bodies of the Wolves players they were defending.
Could we do worse than Sam? Probably. For example, we could bring back Kurt Rambis. But that there are worse alternatives than Sam isn't good enough. We have to do better. No doubt Sam will be here the rest of the season. But this organization needs to move quickly immediately after the season to set up a hiring process to replace him.
Mstermisty wrote:I'm still high on the potential of this team, but it's disheartening to see them regress after an 8-8 start and a winning record on the road. I mean yeah, 8-8 was probably overachieving, but they're 4-13 since, barely beating bad teams, Bjelica has completely disappeared, Zach looks like Zach again, Ricky is having some strong games but amazingly is shooting worse than ever, Wiggins comes and goes, Mitchell is Mitchell.
And then there is KAT. Hard to be upset about anything watching this young stud and knowing he just turned 20.
Yeah, they went from over-achieving to under-achieving in a blink of an eye. I mean, how do you go on the road and win at Chicago, at Atlanta, and at Miami, then suddenly fall off a cliff!? We haven't had a "signature" win since the home win against Atlanta on November 25th. Since then, we have won 5 times, all against teams with losing records.
lipoli390 wrote:SJM is right. The team and individual players like Zach and Belly are regressing. Even Wiggins is regressing in shooting efficiency. When a team regresses without any injury explanation it's a sure sign of poor coaching.
I don't know if it's poor coaching or not, but ultimately coaches get the credit when things are going really well and they get the blame when things are not going well. Whether Mitchell and his staff are actually the cause of this regression is too complex (in my opinion) to suss out. But yeah, ultimately the buck stops with them.
If they keep this lackluster pace up, he should absolutely not be be extended beyond this season.
Maybe I'm feeling the glow of the new year, but I'm not going to join in the hand-wringing and despair that last night's game brought the board. I didn't expect a win last night and didn't learn anything that I didn't know before the game. It's very simple...the Wolves are a young team with a promising future, but young teams don't win in the NBA. KAT is having a terrific rookie year, but this team wins when Ricky, KG and Tay play and play well. And since KG doesn't play on the back end of BTBs and Tay and Ricky look slow in those games, we don't play well...and as a result we are 0-6 in those games. Lip mentioned how we were outcoached in the Boston game, but I saw it as just another KG-less BTB loss to be expected.
And I'm not despairing about the fact that we need KG and Tay to win games this year...the fact that our young guys aren't ready to carry us right now in no way detracts from my optimism about this team. To look at where we are as a team right now, you only have to look at the 2008-9 Oklahoma State Thunder. Like us, they had two future all-stars playing significant minutes on their roster in their rookie and second years...Westbrook and Durant were clearly two guys who were going to carry this team for many years, just like KAT and Wig. But how many games did that young OkC team win? 23!!!! 23 wins, despite having two guys who we now think of being top 10 players. It has been proven over and over that young studs need time to adjust to the NBA. OkC more than doubled their win total in 2009-10 and won 50 games and have consistently won that many games ever since, and I expect a similar growth pattern for the Wolves. Meanwhile, we are going to have to be reliant on our vets if we don't want to end up with 23 wins like the Thunder (and I don't want that). We are going to continue to beat teams like Utah by 15 with our vets rested and playing, and losing to teams like the Pistons by 25 the next night with them not. And I expect that we will play well and win tomorrow's game with KG in the lineup.
Lots of despair and criticism of Sam for the Wolves lack of 3-point shooting, but I put it more on the players than the coach. The fact that we have not been a very good three-point team (except for Love and Martin, who nobody wants to see on the court) for three years despite three different coaches running the offense leads me to this conclusion. The 3-point shot is a potent weapon in the NBA, but you need the right guys to properly utilize it...and Flip has constructed a roster full of guys who have succeeded elsewhere by relying on shots other than the three. Look at his drafting strategy. He bypassed college 3-point shooters like McCollum, Burke, KCP, Stauskas, Russell, etc. in favor of guys who had most of their success scoring inside or slashing to the basket. And Rick, Flip and Sam have designed their offense to take advantage of this. KAT, Wig and Zach may eventually become good 3-point shooters, but they aren't yet, and I prefer to see them driving to the basket and drawing fouls. KG and Tay have made a career out of consistently hitting the long two, and recently Ricky is finding them for open looks...and they are making them. Bazz is most effective working around the basket, but Sam has recently encouraged him to operate more out of the corner, and he is showing signs of being a good corner three guy.
Coaches nees to design an offense working with the players they are given, and that's what I think Sam is doing...and Flip just didn't draft 3-point shooters. It was suggested earlier in this thread that he is coaching his players to step inside the 3-pojnt line and instead take a contested 2, and I'm trying to envision that in practice. "Wig, here is what you need to do. When you're open beyond the arc, I don't want you taking that shot. Instead take a couple steps closer so you can take a 2-pointer with a hand in your face". I don't think that is happening. I have seen Tay passing on an open corner three and instead moving in for a long two, and that frustrates me because he made about 50% of his threes last year. But I don't think that is Sam coaching him to do that...he is a veteran and he is going to go with the shot he feels most comfortable with, And I'm happy as long as he continues to make close to 50% of those shots.
This team is scoring over 100 points per game, and I don't see that as a reason for our poor record. We're losing because we are young and our young guys haven't yet learned how to play NBA defense. Go back and look at box scores this year. I'm not going to take the time to research this, but it seems to me that we are leading after the first quarter in well over 75% of the games in which Ricky, KG and Tay play. Our young guys who come in to replace them just aren't ready yet to hold those leads. Give them time...they are going to learn to play better defense, just like the young Thunder guys did.
Patience guys. Everything will look brighter after we beat the Bucks tomorrow night.
Good post LST, but I believe most of these guys (75%?) assembled on the roster can hit 3's. We just need to shoot more of them. Agreed that our D is a bigger problem, but I don't see us becoming an OKC and getting 50 wins next year without a change in coaching.
BizarroJerry wrote:Good post LST, but I believe most of these guys (75%?) assembled on the roster can hit 3's. We just need to shoot more of them. Agreed that our D is a bigger problem, but I don't see us becoming an OKC and getting 50 wins next year without a change in coaching.
There are only a couple players on the roster than can hit 2s efficiently, I'm not sure what you see that's encouraging you to believe they can, as a team hit 3s efficiently. It's not as though the threes they've been taking have been heavily contested, most are open shots and most aren't even close to going in.
I'm not really down on the team's future, just frustrated at having to wait.
BizarroJerry wrote:Good post LST, but I believe most of these guys (75%?) assembled on the roster can hit 3's. We just need to shoot more of them. Agreed that our D is a bigger problem, but I don't see us becoming an OKC and getting 50 wins next year without a change in coaching.
There are only a couple players on the roster than can hit 2s efficiently, I'm not sure what you see that's encouraging you to believe they can, as a team hit 3s efficiently. It's not as though the threes they've been taking have been heavily contested, most are open shots and most aren't even close to going in.
I'm not really down on the team's future, just frustrated at having to wait.
Currently, we only have a few players whose true shooting percentage is better on threes than twos...Rubio, Martin, Jones, Payne and Rudez. And Zach is about even in TS%. I clearly prefer the first five guys shooting threes than twos, but for the rest of our roster, our expected points drops when the player launches a three rather than a two. And that isn't even taking into account the fact that most of our free throws result from attempted twos, not threes. And Donald SP is correct...most of the threes are uncontested, so it's not a question of not getting the optimal opportunities. We shoot 16 threes a game, but we pass on probably at least five more, because our guys are smart enough to know it's not their strong suit. The unavoidable fact is that Flip constructed a roster built around scoring closer to the basket and drawing fouls, and Sam has to work with what he was given. And frankly it works...scoring over 100 points a game tells me that offense is not our biggest issue.
I'm all in favor of Milt targeting some known three-point shooters in trades or free agency, and I'm confident Ricky would find them for open looks if he was confident the guy would make it. And I also don't have a problem with guys like Wig, Zach and Bazz continuing to dabble in three-point shooting to see if it can replace the 2-point game as being more efficient. But until these guys develop their 3-point game or Milt gets us some long-distance shooters, I'm fine with 3's taking a back seat to mid-range twos, drives to the basket, and resulting free throws.
BizarroJerry wrote:Good post LST, but I believe most of these guys (75%?) assembled on the roster can hit 3's. We just need to shoot more of them. Agreed that our D is a bigger problem, but I don't see us becoming an OKC and getting 50 wins next year without a change in coaching.
There are only a couple players on the roster than can hit 2s efficiently, I'm not sure what you see that's encouraging you to believe they can, as a team hit 3s efficiently. It's not as though the threes they've been taking have been heavily contested, most are open shots and most aren't even close to going in.
I'm not really down on the team's future, just frustrated at having to wait.
Currently, we only have a few players whose true shooting percentage is better on threes than twos...Rubio, Martin, Jones, Payne and Rudez. And Zach is about even in TS%. I clearly prefer the first five guys shooting threes than twos, but for the rest of our roster, our expected points drops when the player launches a three rather than a two. And that isn't even taking into account the fact that most of our free throws result from attempted twos, not threes. And Donald SP is correct...most of the threes are uncontested, so it's not a question of not getting the optimal opportunities. We shoot 16 threes a game, but we pass on probably at least five more, because our guys are smart enough to know it's not their strong suit. The unavoidable fact is that Flip constructed a roster built around scoring closer to the basket and drawing fouls, and Sam has to work with what he was given. And frankly it works...scoring over 100 points a game tells me that offense is not our biggest issue.
I'm all in favor of Milt targeting some known three-point shooters in trades or free agency, and I'm confident Ricky would find them for open looks if he was confident the guy would make it. And I also don't have a problem with guys like Wig, Zach and Bazz continuing to dabble in three-point shooting to see if it can replace the 2-point game as being more efficient. But until these guys develop their 3-point game or Milt gets us some long-distance shooters, I'm fine with 3's taking a back seat to mid-range twos, drives to the basket, and resulting free throws.
