Thoughts on the Jazz game

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Lip, I'm a season ticket holder too, and we want the same things...some wins now plus moves that ensure the best possible success down the road. I don't agree, though, that benching Zach in the second half last night in favor of more minutes of Prince is the kind of move that dooms us to a future of 7th and 8th place finishes. In fact I would argue it is more important for Zach's development to watch a defensive pro like Tay Prince rather than flailing away like he was last night. (And as I know you have noticed, our youngsters do watch. They are all paying rapt attention to what is going on on the court at all times...no Beasley's, Williams's or Wes's on this team, thank god). It's a delicate balancing act that Sam has to play every night, and on some nights the rookies are going to be good enough so he doesn't have to turn to Tay and KG. Now maybe we would have won last night anyway without so many minutes from Tay and KG...we'll never know. But I do know that to limit minutes for 2 of our best plus/minus players in order to give minutes to a guy who is having an off night would be coaching malpractice. Our young guys are developing, albeit not in a linear manner always, and they all credit the vets for accelerating their progress. Yes, KG is not going likely to be here next year, and Tay may only be here another year or two, but while they are here I want them doing two things...helping is win games, and helping our young guys develop by showing them the right way to play the game. I think they did both last night.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Lip, I'm a season ticket holder too, and we want the same things...some wins now plus moves that ensure the best possible success down the road. I don't agree, though, that benching Zach in the second half last night in favor of more minutes of Prince is the kind of move that dooms us to a future of 7th and 8th place finishes. In fact I would argue it is more important for Zach's development to watch a defensive pro like Tay Prince rather than flailing away like he was last night. (And as I know you have noticed, our youngsters do watch. They are all paying rapt attention to what is going on on the court at all times...no Beasley's, Williams's or Wes's on this team, thank god). It's a delicate balancing act that Sam has to play every night, and on some nights the rookies are going to be good enough so he doesn't have to turn to Tay and KG. Now maybe we would have won last night anyway without so many minutes from Tay and KG...we'll never know. But I do know that to limit minutes for 2 of our best plus/minus players in order to give minutes to a guy who is having an off night would be coaching malpractice. Our young guys are developing, albeit not in a linear manner always, and they all credit the vets for accelerating their progress. Yes, KG is not going likely to be here next year, and Tay may only be here another year or two, but while they are here I want them doing two things...helping is win games, and helping our young guys develop by showing them the right way to play the game. I think they did both last night.

Agree with a bunch of it. But we don't know for sure about the learning/practice habits or personalities of every young player. Virtually every team has selfish players. Overly arrogant players. Troublemakers. Et al... to varying degrees.

I generally caution against making character assumptions about such young players... even when they SEEM to be different than former players. It's too speculative.

[Coolbreeze44]

Last year Wig was encouraged by his teammates to take more shots. This year he's doing just that, and it looks like he's at least starting to find the open man when his offense is taken away. I think these are good developments. I especially like the few glimpses we are seeing of a two man game with Wig and Towns. When these two learn to play off each other, it could be devastating.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Growth should be measured by results. The fact is this team has regressed as the season goes on. Perhaps we've hit the nadir and will improve from here, but it's not encouraging at all to see a young team get worse over time.

I'm pretty sure that's the first time "nadir" has been used on this board. Here's to more zeniths and fewer nadirs.

Once again the top three plus minus guys were RR, KG and Tay...big surprise. I don't envy Sam's coaching challenges with this unbalanced roster. He wants to play his young studs for development purposes, but he needs to play his aging warriors as long as the playoffs are within sight. But overplaying KG and Tay last night pretty much guarantees a loss tonight.

Meanwhile the knuckleheads over at rubechat continue to rip Sam for playing Tay...

The knuckleheads on Rubechat have a point. Prince and KG won't be here in two years. Heck, one or both may not be here next season. Winning games with Prince and KG both playing substantial minutes, both starting and finishing is fool's gold. It does little to further the development of the young guys and it doesn't give us a fully accurate picture of where this team headed or what this team needs to be a contender down the road.

I'm a season ticket holder and want to see the team win. But we have to bite the bullet now by fully evaluating and developing the young guys who could be part of something much better than a 7th or 8th seed down the road.

Our team is still super young. Not many teams win a lot with younger guys. It's a nice concept to either sink or float with the young guys, but the team winning games still helps even if it isn't ideal when it needs KG and Prince to happen. There's no point losing games that you don't have to if KG and Prince just have to play the last 5-6 minutes to seal the deal. Towns and Wiggins are getting that closing experience so we aren't abandoning our future for wins. It's nice to win games w/Zach or Bazz or NB or Dieng, but losing with them doesn't accomplish as much as getting a win and building confidence as a team.

[TAFKASP]

If KG and Tay were playing the final minutes of every close game I would agree it's a problem. On the other hand I think Sam just doesn't want to see extended, 76ers like losing streaks. This team has the expectation of winning, long losing streaks could sap that, especially with young players accustomed to winning at lower levels.

With all the frustration with Sam earlier in the season I feel he's settling in pretty well. He's no longer going with the hockey style line changes, he's playing more interesting combinations together, specifically KAT and G. He's pushing the team to compete and win, without losing the focus on growing the youth!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Growth should be measured by results. The fact is this team has regressed as the season goes on. Perhaps we've hit the nadir and will improve from here, but it's not encouraging at all to see a young team get worse over time.

I'm pretty sure that's the first time "nadir" has been used on this board. Here's to more zeniths and fewer nadirs.

Once again the top three plus minus guys were RR, KG and Tay...big surprise. I don't envy Sam's coaching challenges with this unbalanced roster. He wants to play his young studs for development purposes, but he needs to play his aging warriors as long as the playoffs are within sight. But overplaying KG and Tay last night pretty much guarantees a loss tonight.

Meanwhile the knuckleheads over at rubechat continue to rip Sam for playing Tay...

I agree with Khans and don't have a problem with Mitchell playing the old guys late in games to get wins. We absolutely need to win some games along the way. I guess what bugs me is the fact that I'm not seeing signs of improvement from the non-vets. Wiggins and LaVine are playing how they were in the last couple of months of last season, if not worse. Bjelica has completely lost his confidence. Dieng has been up and down. And Bazz is no better defensively.

One sign of improvement would be if this team doesn't fall apart like a house of cards without Rubio/Tay/KG. I'm not seeing it.....

[TAFKASP]

I agree with Khans and don't have a problem with Mitchell playing the old guys late in games to get wins. We absolutely need to win some games along the way. I guess what bugs me is the fact that I'm not seeing signs of improvement from the non-vets. Wiggins and LaVine are playing how they were in the last couple of months of last season, if not worse. Bjelica has completely lost his confidence. Dieng has been up and down. And Bazz is no better defensively.

One sign of improvement would be if this team doesn't fall apart like a house of cards without Rubio/Tay/KG. I'm not seeing it.....

Agree with all of that.

[Lipoli390]

If KG and Tay were playing the final minutes of every close game I would agree it's a problem. On the other hand I think Sam just doesn't want to see extended, 76ers like losing streaks. This team has the expectation of winning, long losing streaks could sap that, especially with young players accustomed to winning at lower levels.

With all the frustration with Sam earlier in the season I feel he's settling in pretty well. He's no longer going with the hockey style line changes, he's playing more interesting combinations together, specifically KAT and G. He's pushing the team to compete and win, without losing the focus on growing the youth!

With our young talent, including the veteran Rubio, we shouldn't need Prince and KG playing significant minutes to prevent 76er-like losing streaks.

[Lipoli390]

Growth should be measured by results. The fact is this team has regressed as the season goes on. Perhaps we've hit the nadir and will improve from here, but it's not encouraging at all to see a young team get worse over time.

I'm pretty sure that's the first time "nadir" has been used on this board. Here's to more zeniths and fewer nadirs.

Once again the top three plus minus guys were RR, KG and Tay...big surprise. I don't envy Sam's coaching challenges with this unbalanced roster. He wants to play his young studs for development purposes, but he needs to play his aging warriors as long as the playoffs are within sight. But overplaying KG and Tay last night pretty much guarantees a loss tonight.

Meanwhile the knuckleheads over at rubechat continue to rip Sam for playing Tay...

I agree with Khans and don't have a problem with Mitchell playing the old guys late in games to get wins. We absolutely need to win some games along the way. I guess what bugs me is the fact that I'm not seeing signs of improvement from the non-vets. Wiggins and LaVine are playing how they were in the last couple of months of last season, if not worse. Bjelica has completely lost his confidence. Dieng has been up and down. And Bazz is no better defensively.

One sign of improvement would be if this team doesn't fall apart like a house of cards without Rubio/Tay/KG. I'm not seeing it.....

That's sort of my point Q. Getting wins we wouldn't otherwise get by playing Prince 25 minutes is fools gold because it doesn't really reflect the long-term status of the team. As you noted, we fall apart without Rubio/KG and Prince. If we're a 20-win team without Prince getting significant minutes then we better find that out now. And while the young guys might learn from watching, there's a lot more learning from actual minutes on the floor. If nothing else, it would be nice to have at least one player in the starting lineup who can spot up and hit corner threes - definitely not Prince or KG.

[Monster]

Prince is playing terrific D right now. Who in this game was supposed to be playing over him? The answer was nobody especially when he was hitting his jumpers. KG was also terrific. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is if the old vets go out there and do their thing play terrific that's just another reason those young guys will be paying attention when those guys tell them to do something. In addition let's remember this is still a young inexperienced team beyound 4 guys over the age of 30 and 2 of those guys haven't played the last couple games.

This is 2 games in a row Bjelica looks more like himself playing solid basketball. No he hasn't gotten going offensively but he has been active made some nice plays defensively and just looked fine not beaten down like he was for a few games. I know the wolves got beat by Detroit but if Bjelica and KG can step up their games (especially if KG can keep hitting shots) that could be enough to propel this team to win some games and be in the playoff hunt.