Minnesota Sports Forum

Yeah, I don't like the Green comparison, either. In addition to being clueless, Green always seemed to be angry and let his frustrations show on the court. Zach has been very even-tempered and engaged with coaches and teammates on the court.

While I chose "somewhere inbetween" on his career path, Zach certainly has more of the characteristics you would expect in a star than Green has ever displayed. I think his ceiling will only be limited by his ability to understand situations on the court (both ends!). In addition to experience, that's also an IQ thing. And I just don't have a good feel where Zach stands on the IQ ladder...

I picked Zach as someone that could take on a closer role for this team, and still hope he can grow into that. I like everything about Zach's game so far other than his BB IQ. I am not sure more minutes would have helped him this season, particularly in the PG role (which I don't see as his future). Zach seems like he is overwhelmed a lot of the time.

I think a super sub is most likely his best fit. Similar to a Vinnie Johnson, who came in when the starters were in a slump, and gave some instant offense. Some nights he will be effective, and others not so much.

I think the comparisons with Green, McCants, Beasley, etc... are not as much comparing individual skills vs. individual skills... and more about "talented athletes who tease fans and coaches and organizations with glimpses of wow-level play" then "do a bunch of dumb things to keep them on the bench, or off the team."

LaVine seems ahead of those guys with his attitude. And that might be the most important thing for him moving forward as a consistent piece of the puzzle instead of an enigma who teases and pisses us off alternately.


[note: as for lavine's awareness... i'm not seeing it. granted, again the guy looks like a player. but i can't recall a play where i thought "wow, that was a clever play" like i do 10 times per game watching somebody like garnett or paul.]

I think the Gerald Green comparisons are pretty fair, and I know I wasn't the only one making it before Zach won the dunk contest. I think he can be more of a distributor though, and can finish without having to dunk, so I've usually thrown in Monta Ellis there as well. That's the type of player he'll be. The question is, in terms of effectiveness, will he be closer to Green or to Monta? And really, Monta was not always as good as his play suggested until Dallas.

I think LaVine is clearly less selfish than McCants, which is partly what did him in as a player, and less crazy than Beasley, which is obviously Beasley's major hurdle (although Beasley was the most gifted of the three players).

Statistically, LaVine has been terrible. And I'm not the only one who has been saying this. But he's really young and could definitely get better. I was expecting him to be playing most of the year in the D League to be honest. So I guess in that regard, he's actually surpassed my expectations!

I think the fact that he is 19 playing out of position at PG and still managing a 3-2 assist to turnover ratio shows he is not that dumb of a player. If you lack court vision, you just don't have a positive ratio. He's not jumping with no where to go like Shved would. He's been avoiding the dumb passes for the most part. His biggest issue in my mind is his shot selection and part of that is Flip's offense encouraging long-twos. If you are open or the shot clock is about to expire that shot is ok, but far too often Zach settles for that shot instead of taking his guy to the hole. I would have him study Harden tape this summer to reinforce getting to the basket being most important with shooting open 3's number 2 and hitting the long two the last weapon to go to in the arsenal. Harden rarely takes the mid-range jumper and when he does it is towards the end of the shot clock when they need to get a shot off. Zach has great handles and speed and he should be able to get to the rim at will or get fouled. That will open up the longer range jumpers because guys will have to back off him to keep him in front of them. Then he can take that shot and he'll probably hit a lot more of them when he would be open. Summer League should be a good test to see what he learns this off season from a shot selection standpoint because they usually just let you play the way you want to play with minimal structure. Zach is the type of guy who should destroy the SL if he plays aggressive enough and pushes the pace of play when he can.

Drew - I think Abe's explanation for his comparison to Green and the others makes sense in the sense that it was a high level comparison of the promise or "tease" effect. But Zach shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as McCants or Beasley. He's not just less selfish than McCants or less crazy than Beasley. Those guys were complete head-cases. Basketball clearly wasn't their passion and it was WAY down on their priority lists if it was on their lists at all. Zach lives, breathes and sleeps basketball. He's super competitive and coachable. The Zach comparisons we're getting from some have spun way, way out of control.

None of us know what Zach is going to be, but I think even his harshest critic is curious to see if he can harness his enormous gifts.

But what we do know are the numbers he has put up this year, and since Khans brought a particular name up, I thought I would provide their comparative numbers in their rookie years (and yes, I understand that Zach is younger than this particular comp player). I guarantee this will be controversial. Beyond the numbers being strikingly similar, there is also this...both were rookies that were not on many radar screens until all-star weekend, when both made a big splash.

So, in the interest of stirring that Saturday morning pot, here is Zach's closest Wolves' rookie comp.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2013&p1=shvedal01&y2=2015&p2=lavinza01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

WildWolf2813 wrote:I agree nearly 100% with what Robson wrote.

So what's your contribution?

Yeah, LST, I don't like the comparison at all. 5 year age difference? And while both are/were NBA rookies, Shved had a ton of professional experience.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I agree nearly 100% with what Robson wrote.

So what's your contribution?

He is just reaffirming his consistent position that Zach was a terrible pick.

But fortunately, Flip rectified that problem had picked up Payne mid-season!