Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:not quite sure why everybody is loving Payne right now. Yea he hustles and he plays hard...but that's it. He can't shoot to save his life. He's pretty much playing the same as Jeff Adrien, except the fact that Adrien costed us a 10 day contract, and Payne a 1st round pick

Adrien was a 28 year old with 6 years experience, he is who he is. Payne may be 23, but he is a rookie and has plenty of room to grow. One can fit our future plans, the other can't. It's that simple.
Payne also made some big defensive plays and came up with some key rebounds. I love how he snatches the ball on rebounds. Guy has great hands. He also has the potential to be a decent shooter out to the 3 point line, a big like that is key to play with a big who operates in the paint, like pek.

I also don't get why people are so up in arms about the pick we traded for Payne. We currently have 4 Rookies, 4 Sophomores, and Ricky (who's 24) on the roster. We add another rookie this year, and another next year. By 2017's draft we will either be in the playoffs, needing to add vets, not another rookie. Or many of our players/plans will not have panned out, and we will be drafting within the lottery where that pick is protected.

Where do you get the idea that he has potential to be a decent 3 point shooter?

This is worth a watch re: Adreian Payne, I think he can extend his shooting and spread the floor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2kZWMYxEU

alexftbl8181 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:not quite sure why everybody is loving Payne right now. Yea he hustles and he plays hard...but that's it. He can't shoot to save his life. He's pretty much playing the same as Jeff Adrien, except the fact that Adrien costed us a 10 day contract, and Payne a 1st round pick

Adrien was a 28 year old with 6 years experience, he is who he is. Payne may be 23, but he is a rookie and has plenty of room to grow. One can fit our future plans, the other can't. It's that simple.
Payne also made some big defensive plays and came up with some key rebounds. I love how he snatches the ball on rebounds. Guy has great hands. He also has the potential to be a decent shooter out to the 3 point line, a big like that is key to play with a big who operates in the paint, like pek.

I also don't get why people are so up in arms about the pick we traded for Payne. We currently have 4 Rookies, 4 Sophomores, and Ricky (who's 24) on the roster. We add another rookie this year, and another next year. By 2017's draft we will either be in the playoffs, needing to add vets, not another rookie. Or many of our players/plans will not have panned out, and we will be drafting within the lottery where that pick is protected.

Where do you get the idea that he has potential to be a decent 3 point shooter?

Two reasons.

First, take a look at his form in the video in the post before this one. That is the stroke of a guy who is comfortable beyond the arc.

Second, he shot over 42% on threes his last year in college, taking nearly 3 1/2 per game. In contrast, Kevin Love made 35.4% of his threes his last year. You may argue that Kevin Love is not a great 3-point shooter, but I would retort that he is pretty good. And it's meaningful to me that Payne was so much better than Love shooting from downtown against comparable competition.

TheFuture wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:not quite sure why everybody is loving Payne right now. Yea he hustles and he plays hard...but that's it. He can't shoot to save his life. He's pretty much playing the same as Jeff Adrien, except the fact that Adrien costed us a 10 day contract, and Payne a 1st round pick

Adrien was a 28 year old with 6 years experience, he is who he is. Payne may be 23, but he is a rookie and has plenty of room to grow. One can fit our future plans, the other can't. It's that simple.
Payne also made some big defensive plays and came up with some key rebounds. I love how he snatches the ball on rebounds. Guy has great hands. He also has the potential to be a decent shooter out to the 3 point line, a big like that is key to play with a big who operates in the paint, like pek.

I also don't get why people are so up in arms about the pick we traded for Payne. We currently have 4 Rookies, 4 Sophomores, and Ricky (who's 24) on the roster. We add another rookie this year, and another next year. By 2017's draft we will either be in the playoffs, needing to add vets, not another rookie. Or many of our players/plans will not have panned out, and we will be drafting within the lottery where that pick is protected.

I don't get it either, Rubioooo. Keep in mind we might be adding two more rookies this year, since we are also going to have a pick early in the second round. If we end up with Russell in the first round, I think Flip will be looking for a big man in the second round, and since we have a big need for big man depth, that pick has a good chance of making the club. Right now nbadraft.net has us taking Christian Wood, a 6-11 sophomore PF who is averaging 15 and 10 with almost 3 blocks per game. We are going to be so young (and deep) by the time the 2017 draft comes around, I don't see a pick most likely around 20 being very attractive. Based on what I've seen so far, Payne seems much more valuable than a 2017 non-lottery pick.

We've done this with Bennett too, LST. You talk about how pretty the form is (though in this case, I'd argue Payne's shot is ugly) and then you compare shooting % to Love's. Love is the exception, not the rule. These big guys that have good college three numbers are the toughest to gauge in terms of range, and like it was with D-Will and Bennett, I think Payne's best with his jumper at long-two range in the NBA. If he's able to prove me wrong there, that would be of much benefit to our second unit going forward, but so far his jumper looks inconsistent.

Your second post regarding the Payne trade is another reason why I hated the deal. We just didn't need to go after Payne like we did; just didn't make sense. We already have so many young guys and we're just going to add one or two more this summer, likely another big (hopefully Towns or Okafor). Pekovic, Garnett, Dieng, 2015 pick, Bennett, Payne. That's what we'd be set up with. Assuming Bennett is either waived or traded, that still puts Payne way behind the line in minutes. 1st round pick for a benchwarmer.

And that future first could be used in a package to acquire significant talent or even to get a nice veteran player to help us get to the next level. For example, OKC paired two firsts to get Kanter and POR used two firsts to get Afflalo. Those are power moves. Using a first to get Payne? Yuck.

PS: Wood isn't making it to the 2nd round, in my opinion. He's a big time project, but so many tools are there. Most likely a mid-late first if he declares.

Camden wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:not quite sure why everybody is loving Payne right now. Yea he hustles and he plays hard...but that's it. He can't shoot to save his life. He's pretty much playing the same as Jeff Adrien, except the fact that Adrien costed us a 10 day contract, and Payne a 1st round pick

Bingo. And Adrien's defense was better, but Payne maybe deserves some slack there since he's a rookie. We tend to love guys that hustle hustle hustle. I think that's what this is all about because you (posters on the board) can't tell me Payne's been good so far.

It's a little sad to say, but Jeff Adrien was one of our best players this season! Comparing Payne to him is kind of a compliment actually.

I remember using a first rounder to get a vet before. His name was Chase Buddinger!

The only issue I have with giving up the first is that it ties up other picks for trades down the line. Payne could be considered that talent or vet in a few years, but the difference is we have him right now. I agree with some that the value of the pick is usually higher before it is used, but we are getting to use it at least a couple of years early.

I do disagree with the premise that we have enough young guys so we won't need the picks. I don't know how many remember us losing all those firsts in the Joe Smith deal, but it is probably the biggest reason that KG was traded in the first place. We were capped out, and had no way to improve the team. In our market, we need to continually bring in young talent to develop and do it on rookie deals. We can't think we are going to be able to out bid other contending teams for FA's and waived players.

Without beating a dead horse, another game = another 40 minutes for Rubio and 42 for Wiggins (in another loss).

Jon Krawczynski on Twitter (when discussing that Pek is hurting but REALLY wants to give it a shot tomorrow night) tweeted this about Flip: "it's always his plan to limit minutes, but he gets into the heat of the moment and wants to win."

I don't want to sound negative because I'm more invested and excited about this franchise than ever before, that but quote is extremely frightening from a long-term perspective. Maybe nothing bad comes of it, but IF this becomes a Thib's sort of issue where Flip just runs out best players into the ground, then we truly have no hope.

longstrangetrip wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:not quite sure why everybody is loving Payne right now. Yea he hustles and he plays hard...but that's it. He can't shoot to save his life. He's pretty much playing the same as Jeff Adrien, except the fact that Adrien costed us a 10 day contract, and Payne a 1st round pick

Adrien was a 28 year old with 6 years experience, he is who he is. Payne may be 23, but he is a rookie and has plenty of room to grow. One can fit our future plans, the other can't. It's that simple.
Payne also made some big defensive plays and came up with some key rebounds. I love how he snatches the ball on rebounds. Guy has great hands. He also has the potential to be a decent shooter out to the 3 point line, a big like that is key to play with a big who operates in the paint, like pek.

I also don't get why people are so up in arms about the pick we traded for Payne. We currently have 4 Rookies, 4 Sophomores, and Ricky (who's 24) on the roster. We add another rookie this year, and another next year. By 2017's draft we will either be in the playoffs, needing to add vets, not another rookie. Or many of our players/plans will not have panned out, and we will be drafting within the lottery where that pick is protected.

Where do you get the idea that he has potential to be a decent 3 point shooter?

Two reasons.

First, take a look at his form in the video in the post before this one. That is the stroke of a guy who is comfortable beyond the arc.

Second, he shot over 42% on threes his last year in college, taking nearly 3 1/2 per game. In contrast, Kevin Love made 35.4% of his threes his last year. You may argue that Kevin Love is not a great 3-point shooter, but I would retort that he is pretty good. And it's meaningful to me that Payne was so much better than Love shooting from downtown against comparable competition.

So he hit a higher percentage from a shorter 3 point line playing against college kids compared to NBA players, and thats the comparison you want to use?

His form is terrible. Sure he can hit an open 3, so what. I don't see how you can possibly hit contested 3's bringing the ball to your waist and taking 3 seconds to shoot it. Has there ever been a great 3 point shooter in history with such a slow release?

I was waiting for someone to bring up Chase Budinger as an example of what a late teens first round pick might bring! And actually, he's not much different than most of the recent late teen picks. Let's assume the Wolves would have had the 19th pick in the 2017 draft ( I think they will actually finish better than that, but let's use 19th as a for instance), here is a list of the last 20 19th picks:
Gary Harris
Sergey Karasev
Andrew Nicholson
Avery Bradley
Jeff Teague
JJ Hickson
Javaris Crittenton
Quincy Douby
Hakim Warrick
Dorell Wright
Alecsandar Pavlovic
Ryan Humphries
Jarson Collins
Jamaal Magliore
Quincy Lewis
Pat Garrity
Scot Pollard
Walter McCarty
Randolph Childress

Teague is the only guy I get excited about, but a a9th pick is more likely to bring you Quincy Douby. This is the kind of decision Flip had to make...a player of the caliber of the guys on the list above, or a player he looked closely at in the last draft and who comes with the Tom Izzo seal of approval. Pretty easy choice for Flip to make when Atlanta made Payne available.