Minnesota Sports Forum

TheSP wrote:I'm just going to assume I know nothing, which we all know is true, and hope Sam knows more than I pretend to. So little has made sense of the past few years that I'm not sure I would recognize a good plan if it bit me in the ass, which makes perfect sense because why would a good plan bite me in the ass?

Post of the preseason. As dumb as Sam is, he is a smarter coach than all of us. There is likely a well thought rationale (teaching poise on the court, making defense the measurement for PT), but nothing has yet to be articulated so everyone is going back to their pre-conditioned negativity.

thedoper wrote:

TheSP wrote:I'm just going to assume I know nothing, which we all know is true, and hope Sam knows more than I pretend to. So little has made sense of the past few years that I'm not sure I would recognize a good plan if it bit me in the ass, which makes perfect sense because why would a good plan bite me in the ass?

Post of the preseason. As dumb as Sam is, he is a smarter coach than all of us. There is likely a well thought rationale (teaching poise on the court, making defense the measurement for PT), but nothing has yet to be articulated so everyone is going back to their pre-conditioned negativity.

If Sam was a good coach he would have got another shot at coaching after his stint in Toronto that didn't involve the real HC going down for health reasons. In a league that recycles a lot of coaches, you really have to do something to make a bad enough impression that nobody will take another shot on you especially when you have a coach of the year award under your belt. Just like Flip when he took over our HC job, Sam had no interest around the league to become a HC again either. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement to make me believe he should go unquestioned especially after he's already turned back on one of his own decisions.

The only silver lining here is this: This team is going to look horrible most nights at the beginning of the schedule. Pundits are going to look at this roster and start questioning why we are so bad. Even the most opDougistic of fans are going to start pointing fingers at the coaching staff. It's going to get so bad that Glen won't have a choice and will bring in a new coach and crew to rescue the shit.

A guy can dream can't he?

khans2k5 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

TheSP wrote:I'm just going to assume I know nothing, which we all know is true, and hope Sam knows more than I pretend to. So little has made sense of the past few years that I'm not sure I would recognize a good plan if it bit me in the ass, which makes perfect sense because why would a good plan bite me in the ass?

Post of the preseason. As dumb as Sam is, he is a smarter coach than all of us. There is likely a well thought rationale (teaching poise on the court, making defense the measurement for PT), but nothing has yet to be articulated so everyone is going back to their pre-conditioned negativity.

If Sam was a good coach he would have got another shot at coaching after his stint in Toronto that didn't involve the real HC going down for health reasons. In a league that recycles a lot of coaches, you really have to do something to make a bad enough impression that nobody will take another shot on you especially when you have a coach of the year award under your belt. Just like Flip when he took over our HC job, Sam had no interest around the league to become a HC again either. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement to make me believe he should go unquestioned especially after he's already turned back on one of his own decisions.

You can question away, but I will at least wait for first Prince to start and second, a rationale to really judge if I believe there is any merit in the decision. We don't have his knowledge, experience, or the insight of seeing these guys practice for the last few weeks.

As an aside, the worst coach in the NBA is still a far better basketball coach than anyone here (no offence Cool I know you coach). Sam may be the worst coach in the NBA and I have judged his merit too. But actually think it could be an ok fit for a young team as they will likely need some brashness to help them build good habits. I think of Torterella in hockey, he has been an absolute train wreck on every team he coached that relied on heavy PT from vets, but worked magic in Tampa with a young and impressionable squad. In this sense, if Mitchell is saying to his players "you have to give effort like Tayshawn if you want to start on my team", I think it actually could be a good move and don't have a problem with it.

thedoper wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

TheSP wrote:I'm just going to assume I know nothing, which we all know is true, and hope Sam knows more than I pretend to. So little has made sense of the past few years that I'm not sure I would recognize a good plan if it bit me in the ass, which makes perfect sense because why would a good plan bite me in the ass?

Post of the preseason. As dumb as Sam is, he is a smarter coach than all of us. There is likely a well thought rationale (teaching poise on the court, making defense the measurement for PT), but nothing has yet to be articulated so everyone is going back to their pre-conditioned negativity.

If Sam was a good coach he would have got another shot at coaching after his stint in Toronto that didn't involve the real HC going down for health reasons. In a league that recycles a lot of coaches, you really have to do something to make a bad enough impression that nobody will take another shot on you especially when you have a coach of the year award under your belt. Just like Flip when he took over our HC job, Sam had no interest around the league to become a HC again either. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement to make me believe he should go unquestioned especially after he's already turned back on one of his own decisions.

You can question away, but I will at least wait for first Prince to start and second, a rationale to really judge if I believe there is any merit in the decision. We don't have his knowledge, experience, or the insight of seeing these guys practice for the last few weeks.

As an aside, the worst coach in the NBA is still a far better basketball coach than anyone here (no offence Cool I know you coach). Sam may be the worst coach in the NBA and I have judged his merit too. But actually think it could be an ok fit for a young team as they will likely need some brashness to help them build good habits. I think of Torterella in hockey, he has been an absolute train wreck on every team he coached that relied on heavy PT from vets, but worked magic in Tampa with a young and impressionable squad. In this sense, if Mitchell is saying to his players "you have to give effort like Tayshawn if you want to start on my team", I think it actually could be a good move and don't have a problem with it.

Here's the thing. When Sam is proven wrong about Prince because Prince is too old to keep up with starting SF's in today's league that will have meant an entire forum of fans had a better idea of how to manage this team than he did and he should be shown his walking papers immediately. Prince couldn't make it in Memphis as a backup or a starter next to Conley, Randolph and Gasol who are all better than any player we have. To say an even older version of that player can effectively start is idiotic. When this experiment fails with Prince and Zach it should be a fireable offense because all the recent evidence says that it won't work and he's still doing it anyway.

thedoper wrote:

TheSP wrote:I'm just going to assume I know nothing, which we all know is true, and hope Sam knows more than I pretend to. So little has made sense of the past few years that I'm not sure I would recognize a good plan if it bit me in the ass, which makes perfect sense because why would a good plan bite me in the ass?

Post of the preseason. As dumb as Sam is, he is a smarter coach than all of us. There is likely a well thought rationale (teaching poise on the court, making defense the measurement for PT), but nothing has yet to be articulated so everyone is going back to their pre-conditioned negativity.

I'm going to side with the SP and Doper on this one. While Sam has made some public statements that have baffled me (i.e...Zach is my starter at the 2), I'm going to trust him on this one until he's proven wrong. None of us knows what is going on here behind the scenes, including me, but here's what may be going on. Although Sam has said he is all about long-term development, the seriousness of Flip's health situation now has him auditioning for a job. not just filling an interim position. And that means he is going to go for as many wins as he can this season, and put the players on the court that he thinks gives him the best chance of winning. And Sam believes defense wins in the NBA, so he is going to start the best defensive team he can, and that's KAT, KG, Prince, Wig and Rubio. Does anyone disagree that is likely our best defensive five? I'm guessing he has watched Martin and Zach in practice and concluded that neither is defending well enough to earn the starting 2 spot, and that forced him to put Wig there. And Shabazz has likely not impressed him defensively either. So that leaves Prince...a proven defender who probably has been the most impressive defensive SF in practice.

So, Sam has chosen to match up his five best defenders against the other teams' starters, and let his best one-way offensive players (Martin, Shabazz, etc) provide scoring off the bench and defend backups who aren't as likely to light them up.

Like the SP and doper, I respect all you guys as knowledgeable Wolves fans, but you're not privy to seeing what Sam is seeing in practice...so I'm going to trust his judgment more than that of those of us on this board that his starting five gives us the best chance of beating the Lakers next week.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that Jay-Z has just pulled this information out of his ass.

The "he's a better NBA coach than any posters on the forum" argument means very little when we discuss why starting 35-year old Tayshaun Prince is a dumbass move on any team, but especially the Minnesota Timberwolves who have Kevin Martin, 20-year old Zach LaVine and 22-year old Shabazz Muhammad as alternative choices. I don't need a Coach of the Year trophy to know that is a mistake just like I didn't need a flawless understanding of the corner offense to know Rick Adelman benching Ricky Rubio for J.J. Barea in fourth quarters two seasons ago was as foolish a move as they come. Spare me.

LST, yes that is the strongest defensive lineup. But one that would seriously struggle to score.

Last I checked to win a game of basketball you need to score more points that your opponent.

KiwiMatt wrote:LST, yes that is the strongest defensive lineup. But one that would seriously struggle to score.

Last I checked to win a game of basketball you need to score more points that your opponent.

Or you could say...last time I checked you need to give up fewer points than your opponent. It all depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, Sam's starting five doesn't look very potent on offense. But Sam's first announced starting wing pairing (Zach/Wiggins) has been even worse offensively in preseason, and is certainly much weaker defensively. I don't know, of course, but I sense Sam got fed up with all the points his starting fives gave up in the first two preseason games, and that's when he decided to go in a different direction. And the Wolves have significantly improved their Q1 defense since those first two games.

KiwiMatt wrote:LST, yes that is the strongest defensive lineup. But one that would seriously struggle to score.

Last I checked to win a game of basketball you need to score more points that your opponent.

i.e. Cleveland in the championship. They had a phenomenal defensive 5, but only 1 guy who could reliably score. We have nobody who can reliably score in our starting 5 and defensively they aren't great either. This lineup lacks any kind of balance and has even less long distance firepower than we were trotting out last year which is almost impossible to believe we would do that to ourselves coming into this season. I don't see how this doesn't fail and make him look incompetent. If Prince couldn't hack it as a starter on a playoff team with a much better coach and next to better players, why is he going to hack it here and make Sam look good?