Shabazz Muhammad

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'd love to hear people's reasoning as to why they think Shabazz can't play defense

I've watched Shabazz as much as anyone, so I'll give you my thoughts. The good news about Shabazz is that whatever defensive deficiencies he has have nothing to do with effort. He worked hard on defense in college, and he worked hard last year...this is not a Kevin Love situation. On the negative side, he seems to me to be someone who hasn't been taught the basics of team defense. He looks out of position at times, and when he tries to recover on his man too quickly, is susceptible to being beat off the dribble. He uses his size well inside, but sometimes his only average lateral quickness is a liability against quicker offensive players.

My hope for Shabazz is that he continues working to become an average defender. He is offensively gifted, but the same cant be said about his defense.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

I can't help thinking of Hall of Fame WR Chris Carter when people talk about how limited Shabazz Muhammad is. When Buddy Ryan let him go to the Vikings for nothing, he famously said "All he can do is score touchdowns". He was right. If Carter were measured at a combine, he would rank near the bottom of the bunch because he wasn't all that fast, big or athletic. And yet he knew how to do the one thing that teams covet...get in the end zone.

I see similarities in Shabazz. I watched him a lot live in his one year in college, and the first few times I watched him, I thought "This is the guy who was considered the best high school player in the country last year?!". His game was so unorthodox, and he appeared almost clumsy on the court at times. And yet at the end of the game, he would have his 20 points, and after awhile I realized that he could flat out score. And he has now shown it at every level he has played at:

1) High School player of the year
2) Pac 12 all-time freshman scoring leader
3) Although Adelman limited his playing time, he still led all NBA rookies in points per minute.

Rick Adelman has a vision of how NBA basketball should be played (and frankly I agree with him in many ways), and Shabazz didn't fit that vision at all. Despite scoring at will in practices and in limited game appearances, as well as in a short stint in D-Laegue, his obvious flaws (still a project on defense, ball stopper) prevented Rick from giving him a chance. I think this was a big mistake, because he is a legitimate big time scorer.

The Beasley comparison I sometimes hear is faulty. Beez was a gifted, but sometimes lazy and disinterested, player. Nobody has ever accused Shabazz of laziness or indifference. He is going to be putting out 100%, offensively and defensively, every times he steps on the court.

I'm also annoyed by comments that he can't shoot, and that he only scores on his one baseline turnaround move. Both comments are far from the truth. In college, he scored in a number of ways: the baseline move, put backs, in transition, 3-pointers, and even mid-range. And he can shoot. Some on this board rave about the 3-point ability of CJ McCollum and malign Shabazz in the same breath. I invite them to do a little research on the 3-point shooting percentages of each of them in college. (spoiler alert...EXACTLY the same, despite Shabazz facing superior defenses!). It's apparent Adelman didn't want Shabazz shooting threes...let's see if Flip is smarter.

I'm obviously a Shabazz fan, but having said that, I see him as a role player...able to score prolifically off the bench, but not necessarily a starter. The Spurs have showed us that the best teams are those that move the ball well, and I don't think he will ever be adequate in this area...it just doesn't seem to be his mindset. He also needs to improve his defensive technique. I'm optimistic that he will improve defensively, because he is a hard worker and intensely competitive.

Most importantly, since he drafted him Flip is going to want Shabazz to succeed. I often felt that Adelman was holding Shabazz back in a passive aggressive move to show Flip he didn't draft an Adelman type guy, and he never seemed happy when Shabazz succeeded. I admired Muhammad's attitude in spite of this, as many rookies would have become whiners. I look for a successful year for Shabazz.

The football analogy is pretty meaningless since you can't solely look at offensive stats like you can in football. If a guy plays bad defense in the NBA, it is a huge negative and may negate his offensive abilities. The same can't be said in football.

Also, saying Shabazz was tops in his high school class is faulty. He lied about his age and was a year older than everyone else and so I put no credence in that. Also, the class Shabazz was ranked in was terribly weak.

I have never been a fan of Shabazz and think he still has much to prove before we can even view him as a positive rotation player.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Ricky, your point about basketball being both an offensive and defensive game is well taken. I was speaking more toward those who malign Shabazz' offensive skills by saying "All he does is score with his one move", and that comment reminds me of Buddy Ryan. First of all, it's not true...he scores prolifically in several ways. Secondly, it would be as foolish as saying "Jabbar is too limited...he only has that silly sky hook" or, "Mariano Rivera is never going to succeed...he only has one pitch". If you have an effective tool in your arsenal, keep using it until someone proves they can stop you. I have been watching Shabazz for two years, and I haven't seen anyone able to defend his little jump hook.

I'm really tired of the age controversy, and your comment that he "lied" about his age doesn't really add to the conversation about whether he is going to contribute to the Wolves this year. To me it shows one thing...Shabazz had a dishonest dad who would do anything he could to give his kid an edge. Do you really think 4 year-old Shabazz sat down with his dad and conspired to convince people he was really 3, so it would give him an edge 15 years later? Nonsense! Our parents tell us how old we are...most of us don't challenge it and ask for a copy of our birth certificate to make sure they are telling us the truth. I don't know if you saw the interview with Muhammad right after he learned his birthdate was one year earlier than he thought. He was stunned. Unless he is the greatest actor in the world, he had no idea until that moment his dad reported his age incorrectly. We can't know what he was thinking, but I know what I would have been thinking. "You mean I could have had my driver's license a year earlier but I didn't because you lied to me about how old I was...damn!"

And frankly, your assertion that he was the high school player of the year because he was a year older than everyone else he was playing against is a non-starter. If you look at the birthdates of the other three 2013 rookies who were drafted after their freshman year and played last year, you will find that Shabazz is only three months older than McLemore, 4 months older than Bennett, and 8 months older than Adams. I played high school basketball, and my size and skill level didn't improve much in 3-4 months...I was pretty much the same guy at the beginning and end of the season. And since he set the Pac 10 freshman scoring record playing against some defenders that were 2-3 years older than him, his age doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with his performance, if anything.

Shabazz is a controversial character, I will admit. He came from an unusual family (his dad is now in prison) and his Tourette's Syndrome leads to some quirky behavior at times. He will never be lovable like a Rubio or a Brewer. But let's try to keep the conversation to his performance and potential.

[Porckchop]

Its too soon to call him a rotational player just like its too soon to say hes not. Its tough to guage a guys overalk level of play when the majority of his minutes were played with the worst bench in the league.

[mrhockey89]

longstrange, the CC/Mariano comparisons are not apples to apples. First of all, Cris Carter was a great (not just good) blocker, he had the best hands of all time, he had a 40" vertical, was 6'4" tall (which is great size for a receiver), perfected his route running, had the sideline tightrope act of all time, etc. The only thing CC really lacked was speed.

If Shabazz was the greatest scorer of all time (CC had the best hands of all-time, remember), then the comparison could relate, but he's not. There's lots of great scorers that are terrible overall players in the NBA. Using T'Wolves history an example, Michael Beasley was a better scorer than Shabazz, but Beasley is a net negative.

With all that said, I'm not saying that Shabazz won't become a good player. One thing he's got in his favor is work ethic, which is huge. But he's got a long ways to go still to become a solid NBA player. I hope he gets there, but I don't think he's someone we can count on just yet.

[ace [enjin:6598567]]

longstrange, the CC/Mariano comparisons are not apples to apples. First of all, Cris Carter was a great (not just good) blocker, he had the best hands of all time, he had a 40" vertical, was 6'4" tall (which is great size for a receiver), perfected his route running, had the sideline tightrope act of all time, etc. The only thing CC really lacked was speed.

If Shabazz was the greatest scorer of all time (CC had the best hands of all-time, remember), then the comparison could relate, but he's not. There's lots of great scorers that are terrible overall players in the NBA. Using T'Wolves history an example, Michael Beasley was a better scorer than Shabazz, but Beasley is a net negative.

With all that said, I'm not saying that Shabazz won't become a good player. One thing he's got in his favor is work ethic, which is huge. But he's got a long ways to go still to become a solid NBA player. I hope he gets there, but I don't think he's someone we can count on just yet.

If Cris Carter was 6'4", I'll eat LST's hat. He was listed at 6'3", which is always a bit bigger than actual height. That's still good size, but let's not stretch the facts. It's not fair to compare Carter's end-of-career skills resume with Shabazz. He had 15 years of NFL level coaching to perfect his technique. The Cris Carter that was dumped from the Eagles was talented but viewed as someone who wouldn't reach his potential and was therefore worth little to nothing. Over time, he proved people wrong and became an all-time great.

No one can deny that Shabazz can rebound at an exceptional rate for his position and put the ball in the hoop. You can question his defense, ball handling, and passing, but those can be fixed over time. Shabazz does, however, have the most important quality that Wolves picks have been lacking in recent years: drive. He works his ass off nonstop, and never quits. Those are the guys that improve. Shabazz is really, really good at a few things, with the potential to get a lot better at many more.

[Monster]

LST's point can still be taken with the CC analogy even if its flawed in a few ways. First of all CC was dumped because of significant off the field issues not him being one-dimensional. Fortunately because he got dumped it jolted him into changing and in addition he went to an unbelieveably good situation where Denny Green had some offensive juggernaut teams. So there is a little comparison with Bazz there too since he has some baggage also. Its not really a good comparison though but no reason to get too hung up on that. I always like being beminded of CC though he was an unbelieveable player.

What I have seen of Bazz is he has more of a game of a SF. In fact I could even see him play as an oddball PF in a smallball lineup for short stretches. All I can say about him is just like pretty much every other player when they come into the league will he get it and become useful or will he not get it and become the guy that sorta bounces around and never does anything.

[bleedspeed]

Lots of Shabazz haters. I really didn't see anyone drafted lower besides the greek freak I would want. I think Shabazz in the right situation is a top 8 player on a playoff team. He probably has the chance to be a top 3 player. It will all come down to the opportunity he is given. I think he has the effort and desire to make it happen. Just needs the right chance and coaching.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

Lots of Shabazz haters. I really didn't see anyone drafted lower besides the greek freak I would want. I think Shabazz in the right situation is a top 8 player on a playoff team. He probably has the chance to be a top 3 player. It will all come down to the opportunity he is given. I think he has the effort and desire to make it happen. Just needs the right chance and coaching.

A top 3 player on a playoff team? He can't dribble, shoot, pass, or defend. Sure he works hard, Rubio works hard too and he still can't shoot. There's tons of players in the league that work hard that end up not being able to play.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

longstrange, the CC/Mariano comparisons are not apples to apples. First of all, Cris Carter was a great (not just good) blocker, he had the best hands of all time, he had a 40" vertical, was 6'4" tall (which is great size for a receiver), perfected his route running, had the sideline tightrope act of all time, etc. The only thing CC really lacked was speed.

If Shabazz was the greatest scorer of all time (CC had the best hands of all-time, remember), then the comparison could relate, but he's not. There's lots of great scorers that are terrible overall players in the NBA. Using T'Wolves history an example, Michael Beasley was a better scorer than Shabazz, but Beasley is a net negative.

With all that said, I'm not saying that Shabazz won't become a good player. One thing he's got in his favor is work ethic, which is huge. But he's got a long ways to go still to become a solid NBA player. I hope he gets there, but I don't think he's someone we can count on just yet.

If Cris Carter was 6'4", I'll eat LST's hat. He was listed at 6'3", which is always a bit bigger than actual height. That's still good size, but let's not stretch the facts. It's not fair to compare Carter's end-of-career skills resume with Shabazz. He had 15 years of NFL level coaching to perfect his technique. The Cris Carter that was dumped from the Eagles was talented but viewed as someone who wouldn't reach his potential and was therefore worth little to nothing. Over time, he proved people wrong and became an all-time great.

No one can deny that Shabazz can rebound at an exceptional rate for his position and put the ball in the hoop. You can question his defense, ball handling, and passing, but those can be fixed over time. Shabazz does, however, have the most important quality that Wolves picks have been lacking in recent years: drive. He works his ass off nonstop, and never quits. Those are the guys that improve. Shabazz is really, really good at a few things, with the potential to get a lot better at many more.

So wait, which Wolves draft picks have been lacking in drive the past few years? Is Love, Pek, or Rubio dogging it in the offsesaon? What exactly did Bazz improve on from college this year? He had 6 assists all year, is he really going to improve to be a good passer when he hasn't shown he can ever? He's a bad defender because he's undersized at the SF spot because he can't dribble enough to be a SG. He's not that good of athlete for an NBA player. Not quite sure what things he's really really good at besides offensive rebounding.

Yea he can put the ball in the hoop because he shoots it every time. Every really good in the NBA can score from anywhere on the court. Bazz cannot