criteriado wrote:Russel was 2 of 7 against Rubio on the 4th and OT.
Criteria do - Thanks for bringing some facts into the picture.
Kahns -- Ricky can't shot, Ricky can't shoot, Ricky can't shoot. I get it. But there's a whole lot more to the game than one player's shooting. The point is that Ricky's play in every other facet of the game last night was very good to excellent, making him a net positive. Over the course of his career, he's been a huge net positive and the stats bear that out. Ricky put Towns in such a bad spot last night that Towns could only score 26 points on better than 50% shooting. As for that one play involving Wiggins, Ricky was smart enough not to leave Wiggins alone at the top of the key with a defender all over him knowing the shaky state of Wiggins' ball handling.
To be fair... not all skills are equally important. For example... it's not exactly like this...
Shooting = Passing = Rebounding = Being crafty! = Defense. (by the way, I think Rubio would get mixed reviews for defense yesterday, just ask Jim Peterson.)
I think our standards are simply too low sometimes. The Wolves were playing the fucking Lakers... a terrible terrible team. I would hesitate to claim that Rubio was "very good" to "excellent" at everything last night. Yes, he does other things besides shoot. Everybody here understands that. Everybody here acknowledges it.
criteriado wrote:Russel was 2 of 7 against Rubio on the 4th and OT.
Criteria do - Thanks for bringing some facts into the picture.
Kahns -- Ricky can't shot, Ricky can't shoot, Ricky can't shoot. I get it. But there's a whole lot more to the game than one player's shooting. The point is that Ricky's play in every other facet of the game last night was very good to excellent, making him a net positive. Over the course of his career, he's been a huge net positive and the stats bear that out. Ricky put Towns in such a bad spot last night that Towns could only score 26 points on better than 50% shooting. As for that one play involving Wiggins, Ricky was smart enough not to leave Wiggins alone at the top of the key with a defender all over him knowing the shaky state of Wiggins' ball handling.
To be fair... not all skills are equally important. For example... it's not exactly like this...
Shooting = Passing = Rebounding = Being crafty! = Defense. (by the way, I think Rubio would get mixed reviews for defense yesterday, just ask Jim Peterson.)
I think our standards are simply too low sometimes. The Wolves were playing the fucking Lakers... a terrible terrible team. I would hesitate to claim that Rubio was "very good" to "excellent" at everything last night. Yes, he does other things besides shoot. Everybody here understands that. Everybody here acknowledges it.
And everybody acknowledges his poor shooting. I'm not suggesting one-for-one equivalence. I was just suggesting we look at the entire picture or the complete equation.
(Passing + rebounding + free throw shooting + hustle/intangibles) - shooting = Ricky's performance last night. Result: Net positive.
criteriado wrote:Russel was 2 of 7 against Rubio on the 4th and OT.
Criteria do - Thanks for bringing some facts into the picture.
Kahns -- Ricky can't shot, Ricky can't shoot, Ricky can't shoot. I get it. But there's a whole lot more to the game than one player's shooting. The point is that Ricky's play in every other facet of the game last night was very good to excellent, making him a net positive. Over the course of his career, he's been a huge net positive and the stats bear that out. Ricky put Towns in such a bad spot last night that Towns could only score 26 points on better than 50% shooting. As for that one play involving Wiggins, Ricky was smart enough not to leave Wiggins alone at the top of the key with a defender all over him knowing the shaky state of Wiggins' ball handling.
To be fair... not all skills are equally important. For example... it's not exactly like this...
Shooting = Passing = Rebounding = Being crafty! = Defense. (by the way, I think Rubio would get mixed reviews for defense yesterday, just ask Jim Peterson.)
I think our standards are simply too low sometimes. The Wolves were playing the fucking Lakers... a terrible terrible team. I would hesitate to claim that Rubio was "very good" to "excellent" at everything last night. Yes, he does other things besides shoot. Everybody here understands that. Everybody here acknowledges it.
And everybody acknowledges his poor shooting. I'm not suggesting one-for-one equivalence. I was just suggesting we look at the entire picture or the complete equation.
(Passing + rebounding + free throw shooting + hustle/intangibles) - shooting = Ricky's performance last night. Result: Net positive.
I also think just about every poster who rips Rubio here looks at the entire picture when discussing him.
The Wolves squeaked past a really crappy Lakers team yesterday with an outstanding (statistical) game from K. Martin and a great game from Towns. And, apparently Rubio too because he had a good +/- stat. So just how bad was everybody else that the team won at the buzzer vs. a team apparently actively trying to lose?
Great fun at Target Center last night. I missed the first 6 minutes of the game because I had to wait in line to get in for about 20 minutes, but I'll take it if we can occasionally have a crowd like that. I was going to write a game report, but Lip really captured the key lessons of the night. I will add a few of my own thoughts:
Rubio: I understand why the Rubio critics are out in force...it was his worst shooting night of the year. Especially notable were a jumper that was a foot wide left (that fortunately Bazz converted into a putback) and a missed wide-open three from the left corner at a critical moment...that's a shot he absolutely has to make, especially because it came at such a critical moment. But overall he was brilliant, and his plus 22 is not a mirage. His footwork on defense was textbook, his rebounding in the second half was gritty after only having 1 rebound in the first half, and he would have had 2-3 more assists if Gorgui could have caught the ball last night. Ricky is going to have some nights where he feels more confident with his shot and he makes both that 15-footer and the corner three, but last night was not the night. But he still had a terrific evening.
Shabazz: His best offensive night of the season I thought. 15 points in 15 minutes on only 8 shots is sensational. I agree with Lip that Shabazz continues to improve on defense. His technique is questionable at times, but I don't understand anyone questioning his effort on defense. I would have liked to see his playing more than 15 minutes last night also, but the reason he didn't is something we haven't talked about much here (if at all). Over the past 4-5 games it's becoming clear that Sam sees Shabazz as a SG...while there were some moments when he was out there with Martin, most of his minutes had him playing the SG position on both offense and defense. It's an interesting strategy, because LA's guards simply could not defend him...but despite great effort, Bazz struggled to defend his quicker matchup on offense (Williams, Clarkson, Russell much of the night). I think benching Bazz was a difficult decision for Sam, but I think he preferred keeping the hot Martin on the court at SG and the better defending Prince and Wig at SF. I understand the rationale.
Martin: There was a comment in the game thread that it would be better to lose with our youngsters than win with Martin. I'm 100% opposed to this philosophy. I was a big tanking advocate last year because it was clear we were going nowhere...and it helped us get Towns. But even though many don't want to acknowledge it, the wolves are only a game out of the playoffs despite not playing as well as many of us think we can. Like it or not, we are going to need occasional games like tonight from Kevin Martin to make the playoffs, and I will take the 8th spot in the playoffs over a late lottery draft pick all day...I'm hungry for a new era of playoffs to begin.
Zach's mid-court shove: I thought it was one of the low points of the season. I'm guessing maybe it didn't appear on TV, because I didn't see any discussion in the GDT. It was really disappointing. I don't mind the passion behind it, especially if there is a good reason. But Zach appeared to be annoyed simply because Williams was bodying him up full-court. I was really surprised the refs didn't T him up...we were lucky. And kudos to Sam for yanking Zach right away and sitting him the rest of the game. Zach looked like a puppy that had been yelled at the rest of the game, so Sam clearly got his message across about the type of behavior he expects on the court. I predict a huge game for Zach next game in Denver.
Tay Prince: My son gets tired of hearing me talk about Tay, as I'm sure some of you do. But you really have to be at the game to see the impact Tay has on the defense when he is on the court. At one point in the 4th quarter my son turned to me and said "ok, Dad, you're right about Tay...I've ben watching him the past 5 minutes and he is never more than 6 inches away from Young". (there may have one other time in his life that my son told me I was right, but I can't remember it right now :) ). He simply needs to be on the court when we are protecting leads.
Poor game by the Wolves in many ways, but still a lot of fun...and most importantly, a much needed win.
Prince did change the flow of the game when he came in to slow down Young as he and Martin were having their dueling heat check contest. He closed out well, but didn't let the Lakers chucker get by him easily either.
Nice job.
Apparently, those at the game had a different view of Rubio's defense than some of us watching on television. I thought Rubio struggled defensively at times after being so good vs. Paul in the last game.
leado01 wrote:That's only the second game I've seen Randle play and he's a beast. I liked Sam putting Prince on Randle for the last play in OT to deny him the ball and increase the likelihood of not getting a last second call. Because we haven't had any answer for Randle I assumed they would run a play for him (crazy not to) and although I agree that Towns is the better interior defender I didn't have a problem with Dieng being on the court, especially given that he impacted Russel's last second shot. He might make decisions a hair quicker than Towns for now which is what you need for one play (then again he might not).
Scott might be less of a coach that Mitchell. But he could also be in full rebuild mode (I still would have gone to Randle).
That's how I saw the last play also, leado. Who knows if KAT would have been as effective impacting Russell's shot (in all fairness, Russell slipped a little in making his move and that probably impacted his miss more), but we do know that Gorgui's PnR defense helped prevent a basket. Sam's going to stay with him in that situation, and it seems to be working so far.
It's harder to judge guys defensively. A lot of it depends on teammates and assignments. For example, a couple of games ago, Rubio was beaten for a late layup by Lillard. But Jim Peterson did a great job showing us that Rubio did what he was supposed to do and that his teammate (Dieng) was in the wrong spot and let him down. It was great analysis with some in-the-game insight that even some of the more astute posters here might miss in a game. I know I found the information helpful.
That being said, Dieng must be making the right play defensively quite a bit. And he must have been doing it last night. Because offensively, the guy struggled mightily yesterday. He was a ball stopper who struggled to catch it, move it or shoot it. Let's be more blunt... he sucked balls offensively.
criteriado wrote:Russel was 2 of 7 against Rubio on the 4th and OT.
Criteria do - Thanks for bringing some facts into the picture.
Kahns -- Ricky can't shot, Ricky can't shoot, Ricky can't shoot. I get it. But there's a whole lot more to the game than one player's shooting. The point is that Ricky's play in every other facet of the game last night was very good to excellent, making him a net positive. Over the course of his career, he's been a huge net positive and the stats bear that out. Ricky put Towns in such a bad spot last night that Towns could only score 26 points on better than 50% shooting. As for that one play involving Wiggins, Ricky was smart enough not to leave Wiggins alone at the top of the key with a defender all over him knowing the shaky state of Wiggins' ball handling.
To be fair... not all skills are equally important. For example... it's not exactly like this...
Shooting = Passing = Rebounding = Being crafty! = Defense. (by the way, I think Rubio would get mixed reviews for defense yesterday, just ask Jim Peterson.)
I think our standards are simply too low sometimes. The Wolves were playing the fucking Lakers... a terrible terrible team. I would hesitate to claim that Rubio was "very good" to "excellent" at everything last night. Yes, he does other things besides shoot. Everybody here understands that. Everybody here acknowledges it.
And everybody acknowledges his poor shooting. I'm not suggesting one-for-one equivalence. I was just suggesting we look at the entire picture or the complete equation.
(Passing + rebounding + free throw shooting + hustle/intangibles) - shooting = Ricky's performance last night. Result: Net positive.
I also think just about every poster who rips Rubio here looks at the entire picture when discussing him.
The Wolves squeaked past a really crappy Lakers team yesterday with an outstanding (statistical) game from K. Martin and a great game from Towns. And, apparently Rubio too because he had a good +/- stat. So just how bad was everybody else that the team won at the buzzer vs. a team apparently actively trying to lose?
So the 9 rebounds (from our point guard!), 12 assists, and 5 for 6 from the line are empty stats I guess?
criteriado wrote:Russel was 2 of 7 against Rubio on the 4th and OT.
Criteria do - Thanks for bringing some facts into the picture.
Kahns -- Ricky can't shot, Ricky can't shoot, Ricky can't shoot. I get it. But there's a whole lot more to the game than one player's shooting. The point is that Ricky's play in every other facet of the game last night was very good to excellent, making him a net positive. Over the course of his career, he's been a huge net positive and the stats bear that out. Ricky put Towns in such a bad spot last night that Towns could only score 26 points on better than 50% shooting. As for that one play involving Wiggins, Ricky was smart enough not to leave Wiggins alone at the top of the key with a defender all over him knowing the shaky state of Wiggins' ball handling.
To be fair... not all skills are equally important. For example... it's not exactly like this...
Shooting = Passing = Rebounding = Being crafty! = Defense. (by the way, I think Rubio would get mixed reviews for defense yesterday, just ask Jim Peterson.)
I think our standards are simply too low sometimes. The Wolves were playing the fucking Lakers... a terrible terrible team. I would hesitate to claim that Rubio was "very good" to "excellent" at everything last night. Yes, he does other things besides shoot. Everybody here understands that. Everybody here acknowledges it.
And everybody acknowledges his poor shooting. I'm not suggesting one-for-one equivalence. I was just suggesting we look at the entire picture or the complete equation.
(Passing + rebounding + free throw shooting + hustle/intangibles) - shooting = Ricky's performance last night. Result: Net positive.
I also think just about every poster who rips Rubio here looks at the entire picture when discussing him.
The Wolves squeaked past a really crappy Lakers team yesterday with an outstanding (statistical) game from K. Martin and a great game from Towns. And, apparently Rubio too because he had a good +/- stat. So just how bad was everybody else that the team won at the buzzer vs. a team apparently actively trying to lose?
So the 9 rebounds (from our point guard!), 12 assists, and 5 for 6 from the line are empty stats I guess?
Huh?
No. Those stats are fine. Although can I mention how last night shows how assists stats "even" out over time. I've read dozens of posts here over the years about "Rubio should have had more assists if his teammates hit shots". At least we can't hear that excuse after last night. I did dig the early action where Rubio penetrated deep and then hit Towns for a 12 footer. They ran that like three straight times. And once to Garnett too? Did it go away because LA got smarter defending it or because they no longer thought Rubio was a threat and they went under every time? I dunno.
The 9 rebounds were great too because some of them were hard-fought rebounds in a crowd.
Conversely, the 0 - game shooting from the floor was a problem. It's going to continue to be a problem, especially against teams trying to win. But there's no easy solution. Rubio is who he is. At least we're all coming to the realization that this is Rubio and we don't have to go through any more years about "just wait until he improves and becomes the next Jason Kidd." That should have been retired by now. He's in his 5th season.
Rubio is good. He's good. He's good. He's good. He's good. He's good. He's good. He's good. NOW... is it good enough? His shooting will limit just how good this team can be. Is it good enough for a 25 - 35 win team? Yep. Even good enough for a 40-win team? With the right teammates, yep. He's proven to be a big help for lousy to mediocre teams.
As I've stated in the past, it doesn't matter all that much yet. Rubio is the best option the Wolves have. But eventually, they'll have to address him as a key guy on a perennial playoff team looking to rise up the WC ladder.
[Note: Dammit. I just realized at the end that we just had this conversation a few days ago. The whole good for a bad team doesn't necessarily mean good for a good team argument. But alas... sorry for repeating myself.]
