Minnesota Sports Forum

bleedspeed177 wrote:Q - I think LaVine benefits more form Rubio then Martin. I think LaVine should start and if he is a net neutral or positive he should be in to continue to develop. I think we need to start building chemistry with Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, and Rubio as soon as we can. I think Martin hurt the development of Wiggins more then anyone else on the team. i say he should be the guy off the bench. I would still trade him if you can get a good asset for him. (28 year old or younger starting caliber PG would be perfect in exchange for him)[/quote]

I completely agree. I would always get very frustrated watching Martin jack up shots and not move the ball when Wiggins was on the floor with him. You could see Wiggins get iced out of the offense whenever Martin was in, resulting in Wiggins doing a lot of standing around. Some of that is on Wig, some on offensive schemes, but man it was frustrating.

To the bolded comment... that almost seems exactly like Ty Lawson to me haha. 28 years old, 2 years/25mm remaining on his contract. Could we convince them to take Martin and Bennett? It would give them 7mm additional cap space, us a legit backup/starter to give Jones more time, but does imbalance their roster some.

GymRat wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Q - I think LaVine benefits more form Rubio then Martin. I think LaVine should start and if he is a net neutral or positive he should be in to continue to develop. I think we need to start building chemistry with Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, and Rubio as soon as we can. I think Martin hurt the development of Wiggins more then anyone else on the team. i say he should be the guy off the bench. I would still trade him if you can get a good asset for him. (28 year old or younger starting caliber PG would be perfect in exchange for him)[/quote]

I completely agree. I would always get very frustrated watching Martin jack up shots and not move the ball when Wiggins was on the floor with him. You could see Wiggins get iced out of the offense whenever Martin was in, resulting in Wiggins doing a lot of standing around. Some of that is on Wig, some on offensive schemes, but man it was frustrating.

To the bolded comment... that almost seems exactly like Ty Lawson to me haha. 28 years old, 2 years/25mm remaining on his contract. Could we convince them to take Martin and Bennett? It would give them 7mm additional cap space, us a legit backup/starter to give Jones more time, but does imbalance their roster some.

I didn't mind Martin taking shots away from Wiggins. I felt it was important for Wiggins to learn how to impact the game without being spoon-fed the ball. Look at how Shabazz was able to score. It's not that he dominated the ball or that elaborate plays were set up for him. He just hustled his way to buckets - making timely basket cuts, running the floor hard, hitting the offensive glass. One of my nit-picks of Wiggins last season was that he didn't work hard enough off the ball to put himself in position to score. Great scorers figure out ways to put the ball in the bucket without having plays run for them.

Q12543 wrote:

GymRat wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Q - I think LaVine benefits more form Rubio then Martin. I think LaVine should start and if he is a net neutral or positive he should be in to continue to develop. I think we need to start building chemistry with Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, and Rubio as soon as we can. I think Martin hurt the development of Wiggins more then anyone else on the team. i say he should be the guy off the bench. I would still trade him if you can get a good asset for him. (28 year old or younger starting caliber PG would be perfect in exchange for him)[/quote]

I completely agree. I would always get very frustrated watching Martin jack up shots and not move the ball when Wiggins was on the floor with him. You could see Wiggins get iced out of the offense whenever Martin was in, resulting in Wiggins doing a lot of standing around. Some of that is on Wig, some on offensive schemes, but man it was frustrating.

To the bolded comment... that almost seems exactly like Ty Lawson to me haha. 28 years old, 2 years/25mm remaining on his contract. Could we convince them to take Martin and Bennett? It would give them 7mm additional cap space, us a legit backup/starter to give Jones more time, but does imbalance their roster some.

I didn't mind Martin taking shots away from Wiggins. I felt it was important for Wiggins to learn how to impact the game without being spoon-fed the ball. Look at how Shabazz was able to score. It's not that he dominated the ball or that elaborate plays were set up for him. He just hustled his way to buckets - making timely basket cuts, running the floor hard, hitting the offensive glass. One of my nit-picks of Wiggins last season was that he didn't work hard enough off the ball to put himself in position to score. Great scorers figure out ways to put the ball in the bucket without having plays run for them.

Yeah I can definitely get on board with that assessment. Though Shabazz did have plenty of spoon fed opportunities as well. Just think of all the post-ups he did more into the season. Just about every one of those was a shot in near black hole proportions. He was just very effective at scoring because he outmatched defenders with strength and an unblockable left hook (admission: eye test, no stats involved on effectiveness! :)).

GymRat wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

GymRat wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Q - I think LaVine benefits more form Rubio then Martin. I think LaVine should start and if he is a net neutral or positive he should be in to continue to develop. I think we need to start building chemistry with Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, and Rubio as soon as we can. I think Martin hurt the development of Wiggins more then anyone else on the team. i say he should be the guy off the bench. I would still trade him if you can get a good asset for him. (28 year old or younger starting caliber PG would be perfect in exchange for him)[/quote]

I completely agree. I would always get very frustrated watching Martin jack up shots and not move the ball when Wiggins was on the floor with him. You could see Wiggins get iced out of the offense whenever Martin was in, resulting in Wiggins doing a lot of standing around. Some of that is on Wig, some on offensive schemes, but man it was frustrating.

To the bolded comment... that almost seems exactly like Ty Lawson to me haha. 28 years old, 2 years/25mm remaining on his contract. Could we convince them to take Martin and Bennett? It would give them 7mm additional cap space, us a legit backup/starter to give Jones more time, but does imbalance their roster some.

I didn't mind Martin taking shots away from Wiggins. I felt it was important for Wiggins to learn how to impact the game without being spoon-fed the ball. Look at how Shabazz was able to score. It's not that he dominated the ball or that elaborate plays were set up for him. He just hustled his way to buckets - making timely basket cuts, running the floor hard, hitting the offensive glass. One of my nit-picks of Wiggins last season was that he didn't work hard enough off the ball to put himself in position to score. Great scorers figure out ways to put the ball in the bucket without having plays run for them.

Yeah I can definitely get on board with that assessment. Though Shabazz did have plenty of spoon fed opportunities as well. Just think of all the post-ups he did more into the season. Just about every one of those was a shot in near black hole proportions. He was just very effective at scoring because he outmatched defenders with strength and an unblockable left hook (admission: eye test, no stats involved on effectiveness! :)).

I haven't looked at the stats, but while he certainly had post-plays run for him, my guess is that the majority of his shots were opportunistic, i.e. playing off of others or offensive boards.

bleedspeed177 wrote:I think the issue with Martin is if he is not scoring or putting up shots he really doesn't bring anything else. Shabazz brings rebounding. Wiggins brings defense. LaVine brings another ball handler and shooting.

Q12543 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:I think the issue with Martin is if he is not scoring or putting up shots he really doesn't bring anything else. Shabazz brings rebounding. Wiggins brings defense. LaVine brings another ball handler and shooting.

Agree, especially with WIggins, who I think is already a plus defender. LaVine and Bazz on the other hand seem more similar to Martin than not. Both are liabilities defensively and neither impact the game much unless they are putting the ball in the hole. On the other hand, they are still young. Hopefully they will continue to become more well-rounded, especially defensively. That to me is still a massive problem for this team, even with all the recent good fortune.

Q12543 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:I think the issue with Martin is if he is not scoring or putting up shots he really doesn't bring anything else. Shabazz brings rebounding. Wiggins brings defense. LaVine brings another ball handler and shooting.

Agree, especially with WIggins, who I think is already a plus defender. LaVine and Bazz on the other hand seem more similar to Martin than not. Both are liabilities defensively and neither impact the game much unless they are putting the ball in the hole. On the other hand, they are still young. Hopefully they will continue to become more well-rounded, especially defensively. That to me is still a massive problem for this team, even with all the recent good fortune.

Q12543 wrote:

GymRat wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Q - I think LaVine benefits more form Rubio then Martin. I think LaVine should start and if he is a net neutral or positive he should be in to continue to develop. I think we need to start building chemistry with Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, and Rubio as soon as we can. I think Martin hurt the development of Wiggins more then anyone else on the team. i say he should be the guy off the bench. I would still trade him if you can get a good asset for him. (28 year old or younger starting caliber PG would be perfect in exchange for him)[/quote]

I completely agree. I would always get very frustrated watching Martin jack up shots and not move the ball when Wiggins was on the floor with him. You could see Wiggins get iced out of the offense whenever Martin was in, resulting in Wiggins doing a lot of standing around. Some of that is on Wig, some on offensive schemes, but man it was frustrating.

To the bolded comment... that almost seems exactly like Ty Lawson to me haha. 28 years old, 2 years/25mm remaining on his contract. Could we convince them to take Martin and Bennett? It would give them 7mm additional cap space, us a legit backup/starter to give Jones more time, but does imbalance their roster some.

I didn't mind Martin taking shots away from Wiggins. I felt it was important for Wiggins to learn how to impact the game without being spoon-fed the ball. Look at how Shabazz was able to score. It's not that he dominated the ball or that elaborate plays were set up for him. He just hustled his way to buckets - making timely basket cuts, running the floor hard, hitting the offensive glass. One of my nit-picks of Wiggins last season was that he didn't work hard enough off the ball to put himself in position to score. Great scorers figure out ways to put the ball in the bucket without having plays run for them.

How many great scorers have to get a significant portion of their offense off the ball? The answer is none. Only one 20 PPG scorer last year didn't take 16 shots to get there and it was Jimmy Butler at 14 and he also took 7 ft's a game. They're all spoon fed the ball or in the case of guys like Klay Thompson, have a significant amount of sets run to get them shots. You don't get to 16 shots a game on hustle plays and cutting. It actually made more sense to give Wiggins the ball and have Martin play off the ball because he's the best shooter on the team who can stretch the defense. Westbrook, Harden, James, Davis, Cousins, Curry, Aldridge, Griffin, Irving, Thompson, Wade, Gay, Lillard, Derozan and Butler. Those are the guys that averaged 20 a game last year and none of them are being told to do most of their work off the ball. Also, SF's actively pursuing offensive boards is dumb because the likelihood they come down with the ball isn't great and they leave our transition defense in shambles especially if one of our guards took the shot because that leaves one guy back on defense. Watch the game closely when Bazz is in because we get killed in transition every time. That's what an 8% offensive rebounding percentage will do to your transition defense.