Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I don't see how any of those players give us more than Rose, except that all of them will cost more. I don't see how this route is going to get this team there. We need the super cheap draft picks and two way contracts to yield something and hope and pray we can get DLo. We're maxed out either way, so do Glen any favors by saving money? We need a player to break down teams on the dribble and score, especially when teams gang up on KAT in the 4th quarter.

If your goal is to win as many games as possible next season, then Rose is probably a better bet than any of the young free agents I listed. But the goal underlying my list is to get a young high-upside prospect who can make a difference long term. I'm all for super cheap draft picks and two-way contracts. We will also need a couple minimum vets. But unless you're certain we get DLo, this organization needs to add young high upside talent anyway they can. I absolutely agree this team needs a player to break down defenses off the dribble and score. Mudiay can actually do that and has the potential to become really good if not elite if he reaches his potential. He's only 23 and would come pretty cheap. I wouldn't assume that all those guys, Mudiay included, would cost more than Rose. And after what Rose said in his book, I don't see him coming back under any circumstances.

I just think any of those guys from that list puts us further into cap hell with not a lot of upside at all. I don't see Mudiay the same way at all, or really anyone on this list. And I'm not so sure they'll come cheap either, especially to Minnesota. I only see more bad potential contracts, and we are already to our limit on those. I'd rather see vets on short contracts, then continue to look for the bigger moves. Try as hard as hell to get rid of some of our bad contracts rather than making new ones.

- PF/C Taj Gibson*
- PF/C Ed Davis
- PF/C Kyle O'Quinn

- SF Darius Miller*
- SF/PF Wilson Chandler

- G Cory Joseph
- G Trey Burke*
- G Justin Holiday
- G Shelvin Mack

These are the "bottom of the barrel", "bargain shopper's delight" type free agents that I'd have interest in, especially the ones with stars next to their names.

Why do we think Taj will drop a tier? Didn't he play well overall for us? I would offer him another 2 year deal

I really don't understand all of this shoot as low as we can go ideas. Why would be purposely trying to only get a little bit better? I am not sure you guys have watched the NBA over the past 10 years, but the recipe for winning, especially in the playoffs is having 2 all-stars with a starting cast of complementary players fitting perfect with the stars and then having some depth.

Let's be really honest, we barely have 1 star and there is not a single player on this roster right now that has the honest potential to be a superstar. Great role players, yup - Okogie (potentially), Culver (potentially) and Covington (already). That is it. The rest of the roster is just filler.

Swinging low and hoping for one of the fringe guys list above, who all have a specific reason why they have not developed into a star, is not going to get us into the playoffs even. Is this how other teams talk about Wiggins?

If we want to make the playoffs we need another star - DLO, imo, is the only guy that has done that at a position that is pretty crowded - and happens to be the position we need the most help. Despite everyone's hand rubbing over Rosa - I hope he is going all out on this DLO push and keeps the 4 people that play a critical role in us getting to the playoffs and beyond - especially next year where the league may be up for grabs.,

Unmovable assets - proven:
Towns and Covington

Lots of potential for strong rotation players:
Okogie
Culver
Jones (maybe as a backup G)

The rest of the team is tradable

We need a bruiser for the pf matchups that Covington cant handle, we also need a 2nd string hero ball guy to take the charge of scoring for the 2nd unit - ala Rose.

I would like to point out that the successful teams in the league all have a ball handler that can be the primary scorer - last time the Timberwolves had that was Cassel maybe - Marbury?

76ers biggest issue is that Simmons doesnt do that, Butler made up for that - they will never win with Simmons being the primary ball handler.

I think most people are in on going after D'Angelo Russell. That move just makes sense all around for Minnesota. Where the difference in opinion lies is to what length they're willing to go to make that move happen. I'll be the first to say that I'd be pretty aggressive there as I think Russell is a top-eight player at his position at the young age of 23. I'd be willing to move multiple future draft picks in order to offload Jeff Teague and Gorgui Dieng.

I also think you're underrating the ceiling Jarrett Culver has. Not to mention, Rosas trading up for him was an aggressive, homerun swing. Culver likely will be a role player next year, but you'd be wrong to think that's his potential.

With all that said, this thread is specifically intended to revolve around low-key free agents. Players that either haven't hit the ground running through their first several years but still show ability/potential to be more, or players that would be good, cheap additions to add depth to the roster.

apollotsg wrote:I would like to point out that the successful teams in the league all have a ball handler that can be the primary scorer - last time the Timberwolves had that was Cassel maybe - Marbury?

76ers biggest issue is that Simmons doesnt do that, Butler made up for that - they will never win with Simmons being the primary ball handler.

Apollo -

For the most part I agree with both of your last two posts. I'd add that two allstar caliber players is the bare minimum and that you really need three, depending on how good they are. For example, if you have a super elite player like Harden or Kawhi, you can be a contender with just one other allstar caliber player, provided you have enough good role players.

I'll quibble with you a bit in that I think Okogie has the potential to be an allstar caliber player. That potential is apparent in his physical profile (measurements & athleticism) plus his college stats (averaging 6.8 foul shots, 1.9 steals, 1 block, 38% shooting from behind the arc). His obvious worth ethic, high energy and competitive drive are the key ingredients to actually achieving a player's potential. I'm not saying he WILL be a star or that it's even likely. I'm just saying he has that potential and a reasonable chance of reaching that level.

In spite of what I consider Okogie's star potential, this organization still has to pursue other actual or potential allstar caliber players to pair with KAT for two reasons. First, there is of course no guarantee that Okogie will reach that potential even though I think there's a good chance. Second, as I indicated, two allstar caliber player isn't necessarily enough in this League. Golden State has 4. I'd argue that Toronto has 3 in Kawhi, Siakam and Lowry. And Kawhi is a superstar (probably the best 2-way player in the League).

If we can get D. Russell without giving up KAT, Okogie or more than one lottery-protected future 1st, I'm for it. My point is, if we can't, we need to bring in more young talent with high upside who might become allstar caliber players. There have been young players with great potential who took time to develop bounced around a bit before hitting blossoming. Chauncey Billups is one of the best examples. My list of young free agents might have just such a player on it. I honestly don't think it would cost much to sign a Mudiay. So it would be a low risk/potentially high reward signing. I don't think the odds of us getting Russell are great. And let's not forget that there are risks associated with him - poor defense, character issues and the fact that we'd have to give him a max contract.

I will remain hopeful that Okogie (and Culver) develop their outside shot. Lets say they do, that would give us three great 3d guys to pair with Towns on the court. We are just missing the PG then. If, a big if, we hit on those two guys - that is a pretty special lineup. Not GS 4 all-star generational talent type team - but a lineup that would be fun to watch and potentially interesting in the playoffs.

Mudiay, the only guy that I considered, stacks up poorly against what we already have in Jones - the advanced numbers say Jones is a better player - the eyeball test says it as well (against 2nd stringers). I would rather try and get Dunn back from Chi if we want a big physical PG with some potential upside.


I (hate to say this) am also holding onto the micro 1% chance that if we don't move Wiggins that he could have an uptick in his shooting efficiency and be a real contributor. He would be an awfully expensive catch and shoot candidate but that is the only role I see him playing moving fwd - his handle is not going to ever be serviceable. I dont think it has gotten worse, I think teams know to just bat at the ball and he will lose it - I think that is why we have seen the dramatic drop in dribble drive penetration that made him a threat early in his career - now opposing teams know to just go for the ball.

If we do not have an all-star type ball handler - then I see us going back to Towns/Wiggins high volume shooting and we have to bank on Wiggins revolutionizing his shooting efficiency - or it's back to lottery picking again regardless of what scrapheap guys we pick up.

I actually see a patch to the championship with this team (and DLO). It requires Culver and Okogie developing into that 3d role. GS has 2 stars next year and no depth, Toronto is not scary if they lose KL, Bos collapsed, Labrons have 3 players and none of them have ever stayed healthy a whole season, Phili will struggle now that they lose 2 all-stars. Some new super team(s)? I like our chances next year and beyond - we would be a very young, dynamic team.

I actually really like Emmanuel Mudiay. I was high on him in 2015 too. I think he'll get a surprisingly lucrative offer from someone that believes in his physical ability and potential. That's the singular reason why I didn't include him in my list.

Also, I'd much rather have him than Tyus Jones.

I would honestly like to understand the analysis behind that - I still dont have a firm grasp on what "potential" looks like in the NBA so I would highly interested in the analytical part behind Mudiay and Jones for that matter.