Minnesota Sports Forum

I would take Gay for Bazz. For those who like DRPM, Gay put up a better DRPM on the Kings than Giannis in Milwaukee, Parsons in Dallas and Bazemore in ATL and he was positive overall which we didn't have on the wing outside of Prince. It'd be the equivalent of getting a better version of Prince on this roster because he's still in his prime. I think he could be a great defender under Thibs and a Ricky/Wiggins/Gay lineup can shut you down on the wings. He isn't a great 3pt shooter, but he's passable and he's another guy you can give the ball to to get a bucket. He can play 3 or 4 which we still lack that flexibility on our roster. He's 29 so he still is in his prime athletically. I think he'd be a good veteran piece to add to the roster pending he's cool with coming off the bench in games against normal frontlines. I like the idea of Gay, Dunn and Cole really elevating the defense of our bench unit which was atrocious last year.

Ricky/Dunn
Lavine/Wiggins/Dunn
Wiggins/Gay
Dieng/Belly/Gay for small ball
Towns/Aldrich

Plenty of scoring and defense on that team. I think that'd be a solid playoff squad.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

khans2k5 wrote:I would take Gay for Bazz. For those who like DRPM, Gay put up a better DRPM on the Kings than Giannis in Milwaukee, Parsons in Dallas and Bazemore in ATL and he was positive overall which we didn't have on the wing outside of Prince. It'd be the equivalent of getting a better version of Prince on this roster because he's still in his prime. I think he could be a great defender under Thibs and a Ricky/Wiggins/Gay lineup can shut you down on the wings. He isn't a great 3pt shooter, but he's passable and he's another guy you can give the ball to to get a bucket. He can play 3 or 4 which we still lack that flexibility on our roster. He's 29 so he still is in his prime athletically. I think he'd be a good veteran piece to add to the roster pending he's cool with coming off the bench in games against normal frontlines. I like the idea of Gay, Dunn and Cole really elevating the defense of our bench unit which was atrocious last year.

Ricky/Dunn
Lavine/Wiggins/Dunn
Wiggins/Gay
Dieng/Belly/Gay for small ball
Towns/Aldrich

Plenty of scoring and defense on that team. I think that'd be a solid playoff squad.

Of course you do. Because all the Wolves have to do is get 15 different players and the automatically win the championship, right?
Does DPRM stand for "Dumb Retarded Person's Metric"? Because that is the only way it can justify paying Hetero $14m.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, and conservative numbers, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M.

Or, he could stick at $14M.

For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.

I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in for multiple reasons. But I don't think his contract in this day and age is that big of an albatross.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.

For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.

I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.

Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.

Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.

For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.

I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.

Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.

Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.

I'm not convinced every NBA team is convinced Eric Gordon is the better player.

We can both pick and choose whichever stats we want to try to prove a point... but we know how that goes. Let's just leave the Gordon > Gay discussion up for debate and assume it's not a slam dunk call either way. Gordon, after all, does have a lengthy injury history. And as noted in this thread, there might be a team out there convinced Gay can play the 4. Guys like Harrison Barnes are making about $24M.

Maybe Marvin Williams is a decent comp for Gay? He just signed for 4 year/$54.5M.

All I'm saying is that $14M is nice... but being able to get close to that figure over multiple seasons is a lot better.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.

For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.

I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.

Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.

Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.

The difference is guaranteed money. He can either have 14 million or 40 million guaranteed. A vast majority of players take the guaranteed 40 and don't care about the year difference because it only takes one injury to make that 14 the last 14 you make. A majority of players take the multi-year guaranteed deal over the risk of playing on a 1 year deal. So it's actually more likely he opts out for a longer deal even if he loses a little money in the short term because that's what a majority of the league does if you paid any attention to it. The only guys taking 1 year deals are max guys who know they will get a max pretty much guaranteed as long as they are healthy (and they're even hedging that with their player option 2nd years) and guys who just can't get close to what they want so they do a short deal in hopes they can land a multi-year deal in the next off season. The other 90% of the league takes the guaranteed money long-term over 1 year of making more.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.

For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.

I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.

Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.

Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.

I'm not convinced every NBA team is convinced Eric Gordon is the better player.

We can both pick and choose whichever stats we want to try to prove a point... but we know how that goes. Let's just leave the Gordon > Gay discussion up for debate and assume it's not a slam dunk call either way. Gordon, after all, does have a lengthy injury history. And as noted in this thread, there might be a team out there convinced Gay can play the 4. Guys like Harrison Barnes are making about $24M.

Maybe Marvin Williams is a decent comp for Gay? He just signed for 4 year/$54.5M.

All I'm saying is that $14M is nice... but being able to get close to that figure over multiple seasons is a lot better.

Ok, I'll agree with the Gordon/Hetero push. And I think we can both agree that the Gordon benefited greatly from the timing that he IN NO WAY planned for.

But I would argue that I would rather have Williams than Hetero, believing that Williams has had the better career. Yes, ATL screwed up drafting him at #2 that year, but it doesn't make him a Darko/Beasley level bust.

And the timing is the timing, fair or not. A 9% cap jump just isn't the same as a 34% one. I believe he opts in and has a bad '17/'18.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.

For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.

I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.

Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.

Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.

I'm not convinced every NBA team is convinced Eric Gordon is the better player.

We can both pick and choose whichever stats we want to try to prove a point... but we know how that goes. Let's just leave the Gordon > Gay discussion up for debate and assume it's not a slam dunk call either way. Gordon, after all, does have a lengthy injury history. And as noted in this thread, there might be a team out there convinced Gay can play the 4. Guys like Harrison Barnes are making about $24M.

Maybe Marvin Williams is a decent comp for Gay? He just signed for 4 year/$54.5M.

All I'm saying is that $14M is nice... but being able to get close to that figure over multiple seasons is a lot better.

Ok, I'll agree with the Gordon/Hetero push. And I think we can both agree that the Gordon benefited greatly from the timing that he IN NO WAY planned for.

But I would argue that I would rather have Williams than Hetero, believing that Williams has had the better career. Yes, ATL screwed up drafting him at #2 that year, but it doesn't make him a Darko/Beasley level bust.

And the timing is the timing, fair or not. A 9% cap jump just isn't the same as a 34% one. I believe he opts in and has a bad '17/'18.

I think Williams was better LAST season. But he was in a really good situation for him in Charlotte. Stay in your lane, stay out of the way. It's good to see him develop into that role later in his career.

But I don't think he had nearly as much of an impact for several seasons earlier in his career. That being said... is Gay capable of staying in his lane... or will his ability to create and all that actually hurt every team he's ever on because he does what's best for him... not the team?

khans2k5 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I'm not entirely sure Gay doesn't walk from that deal.

He's probably going to want one more "big" multi-year contract right? The cap is still going to be big next season. I'm not sure about all the guys on the market he'd have to compete with... but wouldn't he garner more from that deal as a soon-to-be 31 year old rather than a soon-to-be-32 year old?

Especially with possible/probable changes to the CBA surely coming...?

The cap may only jump from $94m to $102m.
As far as it pertains to Hetero, I'll put it this way: "Board Favorite" Eric Gordon had a positive PER split at PG, SG, and SF, and was a -72 on a team that was -312. He parlayed that into a $2.25m pay CUT, and that contract has been widely derided as one of the 20 worst contracts handed out in a offseason where the cap jumped 34%.
Now hetero might have a good season, but in '15/'16, he had a positive PER split at two positions (one of which he averaged less than a minute a game), and was a -86 on a team that was -205. Now we have all seen some amazing happen in contract years, but it's not looking good for him to walk away from $14m in a year where the cap might only jump 9%.

And for the Wolves to be stuck with that makes no sense. The Wolves are not a SMALL MARKET team, but they are a LOW REVENUE team, although to be fair, some of that is not their fault.

Eric Gordon just signed a 4 year, $53M contract. I think that's fairly close what Gay (at his current pace) could garner on the open market. So even with a slight paycut, he'd be looking at $40M. Or $50M. Or, $14M.

For a 30/31 year old, he's gonna want to lock in several more years at the highest yearly salary he can get. I imagine that's going to be next offseason. We'll see though.

I'm not saying the Wolves should bring him in.

Yes. Gordon "earned" $15.5m last year, and $53m divided by 4 years is $13.25m. That is a $2.25m pay cut. In a year that the cap jumped from $70m to $94m, or 34%, he took a pay cut. So a older, worse player in a year that the cap only jumps 8%? It shouldn't go well for him.

Don't get me wrong. He has a year to go, and there are still some idiots involved in the NBA, but I don't like his chances. Therefore, I don't like the chances of whomever has him on July 1st, 2017.

The difference is guaranteed money. He can either have 14 million or 40 million guaranteed. A vast majority of players take the guaranteed 40 and don't care about the year difference because it only takes one injury to make that 14 the last 14 you make. A majority of players take the multi-year guaranteed deal over the risk of playing on a 1 year deal. So it's actually more likely he opts out for a longer deal even if he loses a little money in the short term because that's what a majority of the league does if you paid any attention to it. The only guys taking 1 year deals are max guys who know they will get a max pretty much guaranteed as long as they are healthy (and they're even hedging that with their player option 2nd years) and guys who just can't get close to what they want so they do a short deal in hopes they can land a multi-year deal in the next off season. The other 90% of the league takes the guaranteed money long-term over 1 year of making more.

I'm not sure he "can either have" that. NBA people have not liked him for a while, and that is why he is where he is, the NBA version of the short bus (Sacramento).

And like I said, if he was a commodity, he would have been traded. Teams don't need to announce commodities are available, they just have to answer the phone when someone calls to ask. That is not to say that the sportsworld is a Mel-Kiper-any-trade-can-happen-anytime world, but if Hetero was a steal at $13m for this season, or 2yrs/$27m, he'd be gone already.