Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:No. Wiggins should still be attacking the rim. He is struggling and still hitting 60% there. Last season he shot almost 70% at the rim. Dane moore has been making a case for him to play more 2 man game with Towns.

I agree with this take. Wig came out of college as a freakishly athletic guy with an abiility to score over people, but also had the reputation as a below average 3-point shooter, so I don't see him as fitting a 3&D profile. He needs to find a way to use his athleticism to score more inside. Three things I think could help him become a more prolific inside scorer:

1) Thibs deciding to start Tyus Jones and play him 32+ minutes. I think the reason Wig doesn't cut to the basket often is because Teague and Rose don't reward him...why work hard when you are not rewarded? Tyus could change Wig's attitude.

2) Coaches need to help him improve his handle. Our assistant coaches need to have Wig watch how KAT drives to the basket, and work on it with him over and over. KAT has learned how to hide the ball on his hip on his drives to prevent turnovers, while Wig leaves the ball very vulnerable on his drives...it's no wonder he turns it over so often. This is a skill that isn't necessarily instinctive, and can be learned through repetition.

3)Coaching. Thibs needs to be intolerant of the long turnaround jumper, and tell Wig he will be yanked out of the game if he tries one.

Wig still needs to let the 3 fly if he is wide open, but he will never get close to maximizing his potential until he improves his inside game.

Some good points, LST. I agree with you on points 1 and 3. I'd amplify your points as follows. First, starting Tyus as PG would benefit Wiggins well beyond the psychology of rewarding him for cutting to the basket. Tyus does a much better job overall of getting the most out of the players around him. He sees the floor better, looking to pass first and shoot second. He makes better use of the shot clock and does a much better job of generating ball movement. He doesn't clog the middle by constantly looking for his own shot inside. In sum, Tyus opens up the lane much better for an athletic cutting player like Wiggins. Second, Thibodeau needs to do more than punish Wiggins for taking turnaround (I'll add fade-away) two-point jumpers. He needs to stop giving Wiggins the ball to close out quarters and stop Wiggins generally from putting the ball on the floor for more than a couple dribbles.

That leads me to my disagreement with your second point. I just don't see Andrew improving his handle. He's in his 5th NBA season, playing nearly every game at almost 40 minutes a game. With all those game minutes and all the practices in between games as well as 4 off seasons with no improvement whatsoever in his ballhandling to date, the odds of any meaningful improvement at this point are close to zero.

I agree with Duke that the Wolves should be looking hard to trade Wiggins. But I don't see a realistic trade that would be a net plus for the Wolves. So at this point, the Wolves need to figure out how to get the best out of him. As I see it, that means using Wiggins as a "3&D Plus" player. That means the following: (1) defend, (2) spot up for catch-and-shoot threes, and (3) cut to the bucket off the ball and post up. This last component requires a head coach who designs and offense to use Wiggins in this way and a PG able to effectively execute the design. Wiggins will never earn his max contract, but if he can consistently play as the 3&DPlus player I've described, it will help the team a lot.

Trading Wiggins for expiring contracts would be a win at this point. Not only would it be addition by subtraction, but his massive salary cap hit would be removed.

Lip articulated my thoughts very well. I would love to see some advanced stats with Wiggins iso driving overall, his pull ups, his turn arounds and then around the rim, etc. My feeling is that it is not efficient seeing how poor his shooting pct. is overall. He pretty much eliminated that 360 spin move he used early on that worked fairly well, but teams figured out.

Which is why I think he should focus his energy more on defense and less on offense.

Wig needs the ball in spots he can be effective at. In the post, elbow or cuts off screens.

The way flip used him his first year is the most effective way of using him. He is ususally situated at the elbow, making him closer to the basket and only need 1-2 dribbles to get to the rim. He has a very quick first step and long strides. This hides his poor ball handling and make him attack quicker.

I dont know why sam then thibs got him playing further out after his tookie season and have him attacking at the top of the key. This may be for developmental purposes but it clearly didnt work out. Time to get him back at the elbow or post.

1 problem with this is you have to make wig a top 2 option at the very least if your going to use him that way. Towns clearly needs to be the top option while the pg's usually dominate the ball in thibs offense.

You cant expect wig to be effective if you only run a few plays for him in those spots. A new system might do wonders for him. He can and should take as many 3's as he can but having him be only a 3 and d guy is wasting him and limiting the team.

worldK wrote:Wig needs the ball in spots he can be effective at. In the post, elbow or cuts off screens.

The way flip used him his first year is the most effective way of using him. He is ususally situated at the elbow, making him closer to the basket and only need 1-2 dribbles to get to the rim. He has a very quick first step and long strides. This hides his poor ball handling and make him attack quicker.

I dont know why sam then thibs got him playing further out after his tookie season and have him attacking at the top of the key. This may be for developmental purposes but it clearly didnt work out. Time to get him back at the elbow or post.

1 problem with this is you have to make wig a top 2 option at the very least if your going to use him that way. Towns clearly needs to be the top option while the pg's usually dominate the ball in thibs offense.

You cant expect wig to be effective if you only run a few plays for him in those spots. A new system might do wonders for him. He can and should take as many 3's as he can but having him be only a 3 and d guy is wasting him and limiting the team.

Yet in his rookie season he was still an inefficient volume scorer. He was actually halfway decent his second year because he went to the bucket so often and drew a lot of fouls. This was back in the days when he actually tried dunking on people. He has 11 dunks so far this season. There are 124 players that have more dunks than Wiggins this year, despite him being one of the most athletic players to ever don a uniform. No coaching scheme is going to fix what ails Wiggins.

Q12543 wrote:

worldK wrote:Wig needs the ball in spots he can be effective at. In the post, elbow or cuts off screens.

The way flip used him his first year is the most effective way of using him. He is ususally situated at the elbow, making him closer to the basket and only need 1-2 dribbles to get to the rim. He has a very quick first step and long strides. This hides his poor ball handling and make him attack quicker.

I dont know why sam then thibs got him playing further out after his tookie season and have him attacking at the top of the key. This may be for developmental purposes but it clearly didnt work out. Time to get him back at the elbow or post.

1 problem with this is you have to make wig a top 2 option at the very least if your going to use him that way. Towns clearly needs to be the top option while the pg's usually dominate the ball in thibs offense.

You cant expect wig to be effective if you only run a few plays for him in those spots. A new system might do wonders for him. He can and should take as many 3's as he can but having him be only a 3 and d guy is wasting him and limiting the team.

Yet in his rookie season he was still an inefficient volume scorer. He was actually halfway decent his second year because he went to the bucket so often and drew a lot of fouls. This was back in the days when he actually tried dunking on people. He has 11 dunks so far this season. There are 124 players that have more dunks than Wiggins this year, despite him being one of the most athletic players to ever don a uniform. No coaching scheme is going to fix what ails Wiggins.

Q - I think you and World are both right. You're right that no coaching scheme will fix what ails Wiggins -- poor ballhandling, lack of intensity or toughness (not dunking is part of this), inconsistent shooting, both from the field and the foul line. But World is right that Wiggins would be more effective if used differently. He can't be fixed, but he can be used more effectively.

Fair point Lip. I do agree with World that getting Wiggins the ball at the elbow to face up and go to work is not a bad look, but teams know how to play him better now than they did a few years ago. Force him left, where he has a much harder time getting all the way to the hoop.

Teams are trained to go for the ball the instant he picks up his dribble. And for some reason he hasn't been able to counter that. He's either incapable of it or he isn't being coached very well. Believe it or not, to me the most impressive thing he does is play with his back to the basket. Even with his slender frame he can abuse other wings down low, back them in and then just jump over them. We only see this about once every 2 games. But if i was coaching him he would get a half dozen opportunities to bully people every night. Have KAT at the high post to be his safety valve in the case of double teams.

If he was a 3&D player, that would make him a two way player, which would make him worth what he gets paid.

Sometimes people really underestimate what 3&D players are