Minnesota Sports Forum

Just a thought here:

By all accounts, we the fans have heard nothing negative regarding Andrew Wiggins off the court. He seems like an introverted, nice young man who was blessed with physical gifts to be a star basketball player -- albeit lacking the passion and overall love for the game. Every scouting report on the guy, in some way, noted that he's a good kid. I'd think that there's complete agreement here that he's held up that end of the bargain and from a personality standpoint, I can't imagine him being anything worse than a solid/neutral influence in the locker room.

However...

At some point, and in some way, money plays a factor in all facets of life. How long will it take before Wiggins' complete disappointment and inability to live up to his max contract (or even just an average NBA salary at this point) start to wear on his teammates -- teammates who are paid much less than him despite being more of a positive factor, more impactful, and more energetic with their minutes.

Think about the everyday employee -- the average Joes of the world, so to speak. It is natural to compare your production to the men and women you work alongside. Along with that, it is natural -- and certainly expected -- for those same Joes to compare their wages. If you don't think that causes conflict in one way or another, especially when one worker is greatly outperforming another while the other makes considerably more money, I commend the work environment you are accustomed to because that's just not how it is in the large majority of workplaces.

In summary, Wiggins' smiles and mellow personality will soon be forgotten with teammates when his production does not match his salary. There will be some sort of resentment there even if it does not get voiced or reported widespread.

Camden wrote:Just a thought here:

By all accounts, we the fans have heard nothing negative regarding Andrew Wiggins off the court. He seems like an introverted, nice young man who was blessed with physical gifts to be a star basketball player -- albeit lacking the passion and overall love for the game. Every scouting report on the guy, in some way, noted that he's a good kid. I'd think that there's complete agreement here that he's held up that end of the bargain and from a personality standpoint, I can't imagine him being anything worse than a solid/neutral influence in the locker room.

However...

At some point, and in some way, money plays a factor in all facets of life. How long will it take before Wiggins' complete disappointment and inability to live up to his max contract (or even just an average NBA salary at this point) start to wear on his teammates -- teammates who are paid much less than him despite being more of a positive factor, more impactful, and more energetic with their minutes.

Think about the everyday employee -- the average Joes of the world, so to speak. It is natural to compare your production to the men and women you work alongside. Along with that, it is natural -- and certainly expected -- for those same Joes to compare their wages. If you don't think that causes conflict in one way or another, especially when one worker is greatly outperforming another while the other makes considerably more money, I commend the work environment you are accustomed to because that's just not how it is in the large majority of workplaces.

In summary, Wiggins' smiles and mellow personality will soon be forgotten with teammates when his production does not match his salary. There will be some sort of resentment there even if it does not get voiced or reported widespread.

This is spot on and something I have brought up before. The sheer inequity of it all has to grate on his team mates eventually, especially when they see zero improvement year to year. The sooner we can ship him out, the better in my opinion, but I'm just not sure what the market is for him or what other assets we might have to give up.

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:Just a thought here:

By all accounts, we the fans have heard nothing negative regarding Andrew Wiggins off the court. He seems like an introverted, nice young man who was blessed with physical gifts to be a star basketball player -- albeit lacking the passion and overall love for the game. Every scouting report on the guy, in some way, noted that he's a good kid. I'd think that there's complete agreement here that he's held up that end of the bargain and from a personality standpoint, I can't imagine him being anything worse than a solid/neutral influence in the locker room.

However...

At some point, and in some way, money plays a factor in all facets of life. How long will it take before Wiggins' complete disappointment and inability to live up to his max contract (or even just an average NBA salary at this point) start to wear on his teammates -- teammates who are paid much less than him despite being more of a positive factor, more impactful, and more energetic with their minutes.

Think about the everyday employee -- the average Joes of the world, so to speak. It is natural to compare your production to the men and women you work alongside. Along with that, it is natural -- and certainly expected -- for those same Joes to compare their wages. If you don't think that causes conflict in one way or another, especially when one worker is greatly outperforming another while the other makes considerably more money, I commend the work environment you are accustomed to because that's just not how it is in the large majority of workplaces.

In summary, Wiggins' smiles and mellow personality will soon be forgotten with teammates when his production does not match his salary. There will be some sort of resentment there even if it does not get voiced or reported widespread.

This is spot on and something I have brought up before. The sheer inequity of it all has to grate on his team mates eventually, especially when they see zero improvement year to year. The sooner we can ship him out, the better in my opinion, but I'm just not sure what the market is for him or what other assets we might have to give up.

Cam brings up a good point. I think if we do keep him beyond this year there are two reasons why this can keep from being a really big problem.

1. Wiggins actually gives effort like a more typical NBA player fairly consistently. I personally think he has been doing that this season. He can still do more but I think the overall effort of the guy is less of a question now. Guys would really be pissed if he wasn't producing AND really not putting forth the effort in all phases. He needs to be doing other things to help the team instead of just standing around which he has done way to much of in his career. I want to see improvement in those things. When I watched Towns highlight video from the Kings game. I started looking at what Wiggins was doing in the clips the 2nd time I watched it and in nearly every possession you see Wiggins actually relocating himself to a better spot on the 3 point line and generally being shot ready. It felt like too many times he would just stand in his spot a lot of times innthe corner and even have his hands on his body just watching things.

2. Whoever is coaching the team doesn't just blindly play him but actually plays other guys if they are deserving. The coach may not move Wiggins to the bench or something drastic but maybe play other guys late in the game or reduce his minutes. This may actually benefit Wiggins to some extent also. One of the criticisms we heard about Thibs from players was they didn't get a chance to show their game. I think at times this was fair. If whoever coaches this team communicates and plays guys based on merit not just "talent" and contract I think some of what Cam can be avoided.

I'm not saying keep Wiggins but I'm looking at whether we can have him being a guy that's still a pretty good starter. The path to that is defense giving effort and doing other winning things. It think that's still possible. How much is that worth? Idk my bar doesn't seem all that high but for Wiggins I get why people are not even sure he can do that. He has earned the frustration and unbelief of many here.

As Q mentions what does a deal look like to move on from him? At the end of the season I'm guessing there will be a couple posts discussing those scenarios. Lol If in theory the Wolves could find a taker and get anything of value back while having a great benefit of future salary flexibility it's hard not to want to pull the trigger.

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:Just a thought here:

By all accounts, we the fans have heard nothing negative regarding Andrew Wiggins off the court. He seems like an introverted, nice young man who was blessed with physical gifts to be a star basketball player -- albeit lacking the passion and overall love for the game. Every scouting report on the guy, in some way, noted that he's a good kid. I'd think that there's complete agreement here that he's held up that end of the bargain and from a personality standpoint, I can't imagine him being anything worse than a solid/neutral influence in the locker room.

However...

At some point, and in some way, money plays a factor in all facets of life. How long will it take before Wiggins' complete disappointment and inability to live up to his max contract (or even just an average NBA salary at this point) start to wear on his teammates -- teammates who are paid much less than him despite being more of a positive factor, more impactful, and more energetic with their minutes.

Think about the everyday employee -- the average Joes of the world, so to speak. It is natural to compare your production to the men and women you work alongside. Along with that, it is natural -- and certainly expected -- for those same Joes to compare their wages. If you don't think that causes conflict in one way or another, especially when one worker is greatly outperforming another while the other makes considerably more money, I commend the work environment you are accustomed to because that's just not how it is in the large majority of workplaces.

In summary, Wiggins' smiles and mellow personality will soon be forgotten with teammates when his production does not match his salary. There will be some sort of resentment there even if it does not get voiced or reported widespread.

This is spot on and something I have brought up before. The sheer inequity of it all has to grate on his team mates eventually, especially when they see zero improvement year to year. The sooner we can ship him out, the better in my opinion, but I'm just not sure what the market is for him or what other assets we might have to give up.

Cam brings up a good point. I think if we do keep him beyond this year there are two reasons why this can keep from being a really big problem.

1. Wiggins actually gives effort like a more typical NBA player fairly consistently. I personally think he has been doing that this season. He can still do more but I think the overall effort of the guy is less of a question now. Guys would really be pissed if he wasn't producing AND really not putting forth the effort in all phases. He needs to be doing other things to help the team instead of just standing around which he has done way to much of in his career. I want to see improvement in those things. When I watched Towns highlight video from the Kings game. I started looking at what Wiggins was doing in the clips the 2nd time I watched it and in nearly every possession you see Wiggins actually relocating himself to a better spot on the 3 point line and generally being shot ready. It felt like too many times he would just stand in his spot a lot of times innthe corner and even have his hands on his body just watching things.

2. Whoever is coaching the team doesn't just blindly play him but actually plays other guys if they are deserving. The coach may not move Wiggins to the bench or something drastic but maybe play other guys late in the game or reduce his minutes. This may actually benefit Wiggins to some extent also. One of the criticisms we heard about Thibs from players was they didn't get a chance to show their game. I think at times this was fair. If whoever coaches this team communicates and plays guys based on merit not just "talent" and contract I think some of what Cam can be avoided.

I'm not saying keep Wiggins but I'm looking at whether we can have him being a guy that's still a pretty good starter. The path to that is defense giving effort and doing other winning things. It think that's still possible. How much is that worth? Idk my bar doesn't seem all that high but for Wiggins I get why people are not even sure he can do that. He has earned the frustration and unbelief of many here.

As Q mentions what does a deal look like to move on from him? At the end of the season I'm guessing there will be a couple posts discussing those scenarios. Lol If in theory the Wolves could find a taker and get anything of value back while having a great benefit of future salary flexibility it's hard not to want to pull the trigger.

Good points, Monster. I'm with Cam and Q in wanting to ship Wiggins out. But I wouldn't want to give up any valuable assets as inducement to other teams to take him. I think you make a good case as to why keeping Wiggins might not cause the sort of internal strife Cam and Q are concerned about. I'm still hoping there's a team out there still intrigued enough by Wiggins' potential to take him this summer in exchange for a big contract that expires at least by the end of next season. Sadly, that's probably the best we can do. But the Wolves absolutely should NOT give up an Okogie, Tyus Jones or future 1st round pick to get some other team to take Andrew. In my view, that would be a mistake.

Camden wrote:Just a thought here:

By all accounts, we the fans have heard nothing negative regarding Andrew Wiggins off the court. He seems like an introverted, nice young man who was blessed with physical gifts to be a star basketball player -- albeit lacking the passion and overall love for the game. Every scouting report on the guy, in some way, noted that he's a good kid. I'd think that there's complete agreement here that he's held up that end of the bargain and from a personality standpoint, I can't imagine him being anything worse than a solid/neutral influence in the locker room.

However...

At some point, and in some way, money plays a factor in all facets of life. How long will it take before Wiggins' complete disappointment and inability to live up to his max contract (or even just an average NBA salary at this point) start to wear on his teammates -- teammates who are paid much less than him despite being more of a positive factor, more impactful, and more energetic with their minutes.

Think about the everyday employee -- the average Joes of the world, so to speak. It is natural to compare your production to the men and women you work alongside. Along with that, it is natural -- and certainly expected -- for those same Joes to compare their wages. If you don't think that causes conflict in one way or another, especially when one worker is greatly outperforming another while the other makes considerably more money, I commend the work environment you are accustomed to because that's just not how it is in the large majority of workplaces.

In summary, Wiggins' smiles and mellow personality will soon be forgotten with teammates when his production does not match his salary. There will be some sort of resentment there even if it does not get voiced or reported widespread.

Didn't we already see this play out with Jimmy Butler.

Despite all his proclamations of "just wanting to win"... it's pretty clear there was resentment from the "self-made" player looking for his max deal vs. the two #1 picks who were given max deals solely on potential (mainly one max deal only on potential).

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:Just a thought here:

By all accounts, we the fans have heard nothing negative regarding Andrew Wiggins off the court. He seems like an introverted, nice young man who was blessed with physical gifts to be a star basketball player -- albeit lacking the passion and overall love for the game. Every scouting report on the guy, in some way, noted that he's a good kid. I'd think that there's complete agreement here that he's held up that end of the bargain and from a personality standpoint, I can't imagine him being anything worse than a solid/neutral influence in the locker room.

However...

At some point, and in some way, money plays a factor in all facets of life. How long will it take before Wiggins' complete disappointment and inability to live up to his max contract (or even just an average NBA salary at this point) start to wear on his teammates -- teammates who are paid much less than him despite being more of a positive factor, more impactful, and more energetic with their minutes.

Think about the everyday employee -- the average Joes of the world, so to speak. It is natural to compare your production to the men and women you work alongside. Along with that, it is natural -- and certainly expected -- for those same Joes to compare their wages. If you don't think that causes conflict in one way or another, especially when one worker is greatly outperforming another while the other makes considerably more money, I commend the work environment you are accustomed to because that's just not how it is in the large majority of workplaces.

In summary, Wiggins' smiles and mellow personality will soon be forgotten with teammates when his production does not match his salary. There will be some sort of resentment there even if it does not get voiced or reported widespread.

Didn't we already see this play out with Jimmy Butler.

Despite all his proclamations of "just wanting to win"... it's pretty clear there was resentment from the "self-made" player looking for his max deal vs. the two #1 picks who were given max deals solely on potential (mainly one max deal only on potential).

Yeah, Jimmy was just trying to save our franchise from future harm. He'll be a great GM one day.

I think the main issue for the next few years is KAT and Wiggins relationship. If KAT starts to wane on Wiggins then shipping him out will be eminent. For now, we're pretty light on wings. Losing one more this summer isn't going to bring much success from what we have left from a depth perspective. But yeah, if Kawahi leaves this summer and Toronto is looking to dump Lowry maybe something can happen there, still leaves us with one starting caliber wing and a project. I don't see an easy solution either way, it will still be the hard road with this team.

I think Wigs newly found "effort" is being overstated personally. It's definitely improved but average at best in my opinion. The bar was set so low, I think he's given too much credit. He still rarely if ever run hard. How about putting some effort in the weight room during the off season, that's clearly never happened.

I'd be looking at a sign and trade with Charlotte for Kemba, and I'd be willing to include Tyus in the deal. I'm a big Tyus fan but in that deal I'd definitely include him. I'd also try and trade Wig for Aaron Gordon. Wig makes considerably more so other would need t be included. Those type of teams are the only ones who would be willing to gamble on him.

In reply to Monster's comment that Wiggins could still be a good starter for the Wolves. A good starter on a Max contract restricts the teams ability to add a legit second star next to KAT.

Short of an unpresidented leap to legit All Star status Wiggins will remain a big net negative and must be moved, the sooner the better.