Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

thedoper wrote:We need a defensive big. All of our bigs are average (Taj) to awful (Towns, G and Tolliver).

We just need a big who is better than average.

For the big picture, it seems like pace is up round the board. I suspect that the scoring is a common trend in these first few games.

Yeah, pace is certainly a factor as PPG seem to be way up around the league. And it would be great to have a superb defensive big. But I still see the main factor as Thibs' inabilty to coach a team without Butler. 3 games is an absurdly small sample size, but I will update this statistic throughout the season:

PPG given up with Butler: 117
PPG given up without Butler: 140


The differential won't be 23 points at the end of the season, but I'm fairly confident it will be at least 10. And that's a big difference between winning and losing.

Either way it rests on Thibs. He's to POBO and coach. I do believe that the gap between us being closer to the top of the league defensively and where we are now rests on how we pair someone with KAT. I've given up on KAT being an elite defender independently, but I feel we could have a great defensive frontcourt if we had another player that could adapt to KAT gambling all the time.

Our whole team outside of Jimmy and Okogie are a bunch of chicken leg weaklings who can't seal position anywhere on the court. Our strength staff is a joke. We have a bunch of skinny dudes who get thrown around like mild inconveniences and on top of that they aren't throwing bodies on guys when shots go up too often. They're ball watching and losing position and don't have the size to offset not boxing out every time.

KG4Ever wrote:I hear a lot of complaints about rebounding. Guess who's available? One of the game's best rebounders. HW makes a lot of sense as the filler in the JR trade.

The more I think about this the more I think you're right. KAT is not a 5 on the defensive end.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:I hear a lot of complaints about rebounding. Guess who's available? One of the game's best rebounders. HW makes a lot of sense as the filler in the JR trade.

The more I think about this the more I think you're right. KAT is not a 5 on the defensive end.

I've thought that for some time. KAT struggles most against the biggest players. He's listed at 7'0 but he's really around 6'10 and he doesn't have super long arms. He's highly skilled and seems much better suited to the PF position. But regardless of position, I think he'd be better paired with a long, strong defensive presence at the other big position.

Maybe we should explore a Butler/Gorgui deal that would bring back Richardson, Whiteside and Miami's first round pick.

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:I hear a lot of complaints about rebounding. Guess who's available? One of the game's best rebounders. HW makes a lot of sense as the filler in the JR trade.

The more I think about this the more I think you're right. KAT is not a 5 on the defensive end.

I've thought that for some time. KAT struggles most against the biggest players. He's listed at 7'0 but he's really around 6'10 and he doesn't have super long arms. He's highly skilled and seems much better suited to the PF position. But regardless of position, I think he'd be better paired with a long, strong defensive presence at the other big position.

Maybe we should explore a Butler/Gorgui deal that would bring back Richardson, Whiteside and Miami's first round pick.

I see Lip has started to come around to the Whiteside. lol Riley is getting to him.

Our defensive woes have many reasons. All of them circle back to Thibs. His out dated schemes, his personnel moves, and clearly no control over his own team.

Has he made even one FA signing for defensive purposes? He signed Teague, Gibson, Rose, Crawford, and most recently let Belly walk for Tolliver. I guess you can say Gibson is as close to a two way player as we have gotten. He offered large deals to re-sign Gorgui and Bazz, both defensive liabilities. It seems like he is trying to sabotage himself. I just don't understand the logic in anything he does. What is Taylor seeing that I don't?

sjm34 wrote:Our defensive woes have many reasons. All of them circle back to Thibs. His out dated schemes, his personnel moves, and clearly no control over his own team.

Has he made even one FA signing for defensive purposes? He signed Teague, Gibson, Rose, Crawford, and most recently let Belly walk for Tolliver. I guess you can say Gibson is as close to a two way player as we have gotten. He offered large deals to re-sign Gorgui and Bazz, both defensive liabilities. It seems like he is trying to sabotage himself. I just don't understand the logic in anything he does. What is Taylor seeing that I don't?

There are some moves that certainly aren't ones to help the defense. However Trading for Butler was a pretty big one and Taj by various metrics was an above average defender when he signed.

How long is Whitesides deal?

The thing that just seems to vex us to no end is screen and roll where the ball handler has to be challenged by our big. It seems like we absolutely suck at then diving down to disrupt the ensuing pass or offensive rebound to the rolling big man. And while KAT might still be learning the nuances of when to commit to the ball handler versus hang back, he seemingly gets ZERO help when he does commit to the ball handler. Someone needs to get the eff in the paint and put a body on the roller or disrupt the passing lane to him!

I kinda agree with Khan's rant up above. I think just sheer strength and toughness is a big problem. When Butler is in the game, he'll get his nose dirty and disrupt things in the paint. None of our other perimeter guys do this well.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:I hear a lot of complaints about rebounding. Guess who's available? One of the game's best rebounders. HW makes a lot of sense as the filler in the JR trade.

The more I think about this the more I think you're right. KAT is not a 5 on the defensive end.

I've thought that for some time. KAT struggles most against the biggest players. He's listed at 7'0 but he's really around 6'10 and he doesn't have super long arms. He's highly skilled and seems much better suited to the PF position. But regardless of position, I think he'd be better paired with a long, strong defensive presence at the other big position.

Maybe we should explore a Butler/Gorgui deal that would bring back Richardson, Whiteside and Miami's first round pick.

I see Lip has started to come around to the Whiteside. lol Riley is getting to him.

Strange things are happening, Monster. LST is morphing into Thibodeau and Pat Riley has taken control of my mind. I'm sure something is about to happen to you. :)