longstrangetrip wrote:Well, it's already 5pm on sunday and no news yet about Thibs being fired, so the 9 "no" votes here are looking pretty good. Taj Gibson skipping yesterday's game for "personal reasons" and then "liking" an Instagram post saying Thibs should be fired immediately if they lost to Phoenix adds yet another element of drama. Taj seems to be the ultimate team player, so if Thibs has lost him, it's more evidence he has lost the entire team. Anyway, if Thibs is still here tomorrow and Taj decides to come back, it should be interesting to watch how they interact.
I hadn't heard that, kek, If that's true, it's even odder to me that while mourning a family member he would take the time to "like" a post endorsing firing Thibs. I'm reflecting on coaches I have played for in various sports, and while there wasn't social media in my playing days, I can tell you that none of them would have been too pleased to hear I was in favor of them being fired! I have to believe things will be a little icy at TC tomorrow night.
LST I think you are right when you say this is very odd. Jon K said on Twitter the Instagram likes aren't like Taj. He said the people he talked to said it must have been a mistake or some other explanation. He said we will probably find out something tomorrow I assume he means Taj speaking to the media after practice. I just looked on twitter and I looks as if Taj posted an Instagram story saying people need to cut out with the fake news. If Taj wanted Thibs fired I think we would know from him or he would be talking to someone that matters (like Glen) not messing around about it on social media.
I think taj was in mourning and while watching the game, his emotions got the best of him. He knows that the players and probably himself are irked with thibs' schemes, but hes always bottled it up because he's a professional.
lipoli390 wrote:Of course, I would have fired him two years ago. But I agree with CC that Glen will wait until after the season. Maybe that's a good thing. The longer Thibodeau stays this season the more games the Wolves lose. And the more games the Wolves lose the better the team's lottery position. This team is in too deep a hole in a deep Western Conference to make the playoffs at this point. Keeping Thibodeau is a way to tank without really tanking.
3 games is too deep of a hole to come back from? 2 years ago? The rich don't stay rich by dumping on a guaranteed investment that large that quickly! He will more than likely get fired this off season but honestly who knows, Thibs is nowhere near the worst we have seen over the years here!
Yes, 2.5 games out of 8th place. But there are now 5 teams between the Wolves and 8th place. And the Wolves just lost to the Phoenix Suns. And the Wolves have been amazingly healthy so far this season.
And yes, I would have fired him 2 years ago after. I posted my view at the time. It was just after Thibodeau coached the same team to essentially the same record they had under Sam Mitchell even though the young players had a full season more under their belt when Thibs took over than they had under Mitchell. Oh, and Mitchell's Wolves finished around .500 the last quarter of the season. But I wouldn't have hired Thibodeau in the first place. Hindsight has proven me right.
lipoli390 wrote:Of course, I would have fired him two years ago. But I agree with CC that Glen will wait until after the season. Maybe that's a good thing. The longer Thibodeau stays this season the more games the Wolves lose. And the more games the Wolves lose the better the team's lottery position. This team is in too deep a hole in a deep Western Conference to make the playoffs at this point. Keeping Thibodeau is a way to tank without really tanking.
3 games is too deep of a hole to come back from? 2 years ago? The rich don't stay rich by dumping on a guaranteed investment that large that quickly! He will more than likely get fired this off season but honestly who knows, Thibs is nowhere near the worst we have seen over the years here!
Yes, 2.5 games out of 8th place. But there are now 5 teams between the Wolves and 8th place. And the Wolves just lost to the Phoenix Suns. And the Wolves have been amazingly healthy so far this season.
And yes, I would have fired him 2 years ago after. I posted my view at the time. It was just after Thibodeau coached the same team to essentially the same record they had under Sam Mitchell even though the young players had a full season more under their belt when Thibs took over than they had under Mitchell. Oh, and Mitchell's Wolves finished around .500 the last quarter of the season. But I wouldn't have hired Thibodeau in the first place. Hindsight has proven me right.
He took over the worst franchise in basketball going on a significant playoff drought and made them into a playoff team in 2 offseasons. I don't know how anyone can say he should have won more games with a 20 year old KAT and 21 year old Wiggins like they were game winning cornerstones back then. They aren't even at that level right now let alone 2 years ago. I don't really understand how hindsight has proven you right. He improved the team every year and then in a disaster situation (that he contributed to) turned a disgruntled star into a defensive POY candidate and a rotation big with a timeline that matches up with our best young players.
There is no objective analysis on this board with Thibs. He turned this joke of a franchise into a real NBA team. I'm not saying he's the answer moving forward. I always viewed him as more of a stepping stone coach who would give us a bump for a few years to a respectable level and then we would move forward with someone else. But that doesn't mean in hindsight he was a bad hire. He turned this franchises expectations around in 2 years from lottery hopefuls to demanding more than just playoff berths. Not giving him credit for the complete turnaround he's done for this franchise is a joke. But I guess I should expect nothing less considering he gets no credit when this team plays well and yet he also gets all the blame when they don't perform. Why should it be any different for the franchise he turned around from the dumps?
lipoli390 wrote:Of course, I would have fired him two years ago. But I agree with CC that Glen will wait until after the season. Maybe that's a good thing. The longer Thibodeau stays this season the more games the Wolves lose. And the more games the Wolves lose the better the team's lottery position. This team is in too deep a hole in a deep Western Conference to make the playoffs at this point. Keeping Thibodeau is a way to tank without really tanking.
3 games is too deep of a hole to come back from? 2 years ago? The rich don't stay rich by dumping on a guaranteed investment that large that quickly! He will more than likely get fired this off season but honestly who knows, Thibs is nowhere near the worst we have seen over the years here!
Yes, 2.5 games out of 8th place. But there are now 5 teams between the Wolves and 8th place. And the Wolves just lost to the Phoenix Suns. And the Wolves have been amazingly healthy so far this season.
And yes, I would have fired him 2 years ago after. I posted my view at the time. It was just after Thibodeau coached the same team to essentially the same record they had under Sam Mitchell even though the young players had a full season more under their belt when Thibs took over than they had under Mitchell. Oh, and Mitchell's Wolves finished around .500 the last quarter of the season. But I wouldn't have hired Thibodeau in the first place. Hindsight has proven me right.
He took over the worst franchise in basketball going on a significant playoff drought and made them into a playoff team in 2 offseasons. I don't know how anyone can say he should have won more games with a 20 year old KAT and 21 year old Wiggins like they were game winning cornerstones back then. They aren't even at that level right now let alone 2 years ago. I don't really understand how hindsight has proven you right. He improved the team every year and then in a disaster situation (that he contributed to) turned a disgruntled star into a defensive POY candidate and a rotation big with a timeline that matches up with our best young players.
There is no objective analysis on this board with Thibs. He turned this joke of a franchise into a real NBA team. I'm not saying he's the answer moving forward. I always viewed him as more of a stepping stone coach who would give us a bump for a few years to a respectable level and then we would move forward with someone else. But that doesn't mean in hindsight he was a bad hire. He turned this franchises expectations around in 2 years from lottery hopefuls to demanding more than just playoff berths. Not giving him credit for the complete turnaround he's done for this franchise is a joke. But I guess I should expect nothing less considering he gets no credit when this team plays well and yet he also gets all the blame when they don't perform. Why should it be any different for the franchise he turned around from the dumps?
Not sure how you can say with a straight face that Thibodeau improved the team EVERY year when in his first season here the Wolves had essentially the same record as the previous year under Sam (2 more wins I think), especially when considering how well the Wolves were playing at the end of the previous season under Mitchell. The next season it was Butler, Taj and yes even Crawford who improved the team. I'll give Thibodeau as PBO credit for that. But with Butler gone, the Wolves are now second from the bottom in the Western Conference standings in spite of having a lot of talent and being healthy.
This franchise was not a joke when Thibodeau came here. Flip had this franchise on the right track. The Wolves' head coaching job was one of the most coveted in the League when Thibodeau was hired because of the young talent here that Flip acquired and the perception that this was a team on the rise. The Wolves became a joke at the beginning of this season with the Butler fiasco, which Thibodeau the PBO contributed to.
Who's the disgruntled star Thibodeau has turned into a defensive POY candidate?
People are giving Tibs way too much credit for building the roster, such as the Butler trade. Whatever you wanna say about Zach, Dunn and the pick used to get Butler, that's still a lot of assets/resources to give up for a player. Granted Butler had two years left on his deal, but it's still essentially one in today's NBA. The Bulls were ready to go in rebuild mode, they weren't going anywhere with Butler. I have a tough time giving him a ton of credit for that move, any GM in the league to do that. The Taj signing, he over paid for a 30+ player with a shrinking role in the league. Next year he'll be a 3-4 million dollar player, same with Crawford, Tibs signed him a year before he was almost out of the league. The Wig signing, major blunder, Cole signing, Gorgui signing, Tolliver signing, None turned out. Teague has played considerably worse since being coached by Tibs. He barley got in the the playoffs and Kahns wants to throw him a parade, lol
Duke13 wrote:People are giving Tibs way too much credit for building the roster, such as the Butler trade. Whatever you wanna say about Zach, Dunn and the pick used to get Butler, that's still a lot of assets/resources to give up for a player. Granted Butler had two years left on his deal, but it's still essentially one in today's NBA. The Bulls were ready to go in rebuild mode, they weren't going anywhere with Butler. I have a tough time giving him a ton of credit for that move, any GM in the league to do that. The Taj signing, he over paid for a 30+ player with a shrinking role in the league. Next year he'll be a 3-4 million dollar player, same with Crawford, Tibs signed him a year before he was almost out of the league. The Wig signing, major blunder, Cole signing, Gorgui signing, Tolliver signing, None turned out. Teague has played considerably worse since being coached by Tibs. He barley got in the the playoffs and Kahns wants to throw him a parade, lol
Agreed. Thibodeau deserves no credit.
For anything. About anything. Ever.
Now if we can all go back to blaming him for everything. About everybody. And everything... we can try to mask the fact that the Timberwolves have some serious flaws and this once-promising team isn't nearly as promising as every one of us once thought.
[Note: Again, I'm cool with firing Thibs. Today. No problem with it. But I think the takes here about him have become a bit too ridiculous.]
Duke13 wrote:People are giving Tibs way too much credit for building the roster, such as the Butler trade. Whatever you wanna say about Zach, Dunn and the pick used to get Butler, that's still a lot of assets/resources to give up for a player. Granted Butler had two years left on his deal, but it's still essentially one in today's NBA. The Bulls were ready to go in rebuild mode, they weren't going anywhere with Butler. I have a tough time giving him a ton of credit for that move, any GM in the league to do that. The Taj signing, he over paid for a 30+ player with a shrinking role in the league. Next year he'll be a 3-4 million dollar player, same with Crawford, Tibs signed him a year before he was almost out of the league. The Wig signing, major blunder, Cole signing, Gorgui signing, Tolliver signing, None turned out. Teague has played considerably worse since being coached by Tibs. He barley got in the the playoffs and Kahns wants to throw him a parade, lol
Agreed. Thibodeau deserves no credit.
For anything. About anything. Ever.
Now if we can all go back to blaming him for everything. About everybody. And everything... we can try to mask the fact that the Timberwolves have some serious flaws and this once-promising team isn't nearly as promising as every one of us once thought.
[Note: Again, I'm cool with firing Thibs. Today. No problem with it. But I think the takes here about him have become a bit too ridiculous.]
I'm not even comfortable with Thibs' lack of alibi in the Khashoggi murder...more to be revealed on that one I think :) .
While I would also like to see coach Thibs replaced today, I still mostly like what he has done with building this roster. Despite the good games Dunn and Lauri had last night, the net impact of the two Butler deals is this: Who would you rather have: Dunn, Zach and Lauri; or Covington, Saric, Bayless and a pick? I think the answer is pretty easy...the latter. We now have 2 players who are clearly NBA starters, while there's still a huge jury out on the 3 Bulls. Without question Thibs deserves a lot of credit for the net result of the Butler dealings.
Duke13 wrote:People are giving Tibs way too much credit for building the roster, such as the Butler trade. Whatever you wanna say about Zach, Dunn and the pick used to get Butler, that's still a lot of assets/resources to give up for a player. Granted Butler had two years left on his deal, but it's still essentially one in today's NBA. The Bulls were ready to go in rebuild mode, they weren't going anywhere with Butler. I have a tough time giving him a ton of credit for that move, any GM in the league to do that. The Taj signing, he over paid for a 30+ player with a shrinking role in the league. Next year he'll be a 3-4 million dollar player, same with Crawford, Tibs signed him a year before he was almost out of the league. The Wig signing, major blunder, Cole signing, Gorgui signing, Tolliver signing, None turned out. Teague has played considerably worse since being coached by Tibs. He barley got in the the playoffs and Kahns wants to throw him a parade, lol
Agreed. Thibodeau deserves no credit.
For anything. About anything. Ever.
Now if we can all go back to blaming him for everything. About everybody. And everything... we can try to mask the fact that the Timberwolves have some serious flaws and this once-promising team isn't nearly as promising as every one of us once thought.
[Note: Again, I'm cool with firing Thibs. Today. No problem with it. But I think the takes here about him have become a bit too ridiculous.]
Exactly what you said.
Because of takes on this board it makes me feel like I love thibs. I think he is a middle of the road coach. I'm fine if he gets fired but he'll end up being the 2nd best winning % coach in team history, outside shot at being the best if we somehow win 47 games.
Everyone talks about how thibs ruined this young promising core. In hindsight they weren't good. Lavine is a high usage negative player who is now leading boycotts when he is the man on his team (boylan is an idiot also). Wiggins never developed and is pretty much jeff green, where there are games where you see the talent but for whatever reason he doesn't do it at a consistent level. Towns is a beast.
In the end thibs gets fired because he drafted Dunn and Patton. We had 2 years with of 0 impact out of young guys and our supposed young stud Wiggins just is a guy in the NBA.
Thibs is a scapegoat and a new coach isn't winning us a title or significantly increasing our chances at playoffs this year.
It's a player's league and at the moment we have 1 guy who is above average player at his position and that is towns
Duke13 wrote:Totally disagree with LST's analysis of the "net positive" of the Butler deal! Yikes.
Yeah, I know. What kind of knucklehead would want to have 2 starters from a 52-win team last year (one of them who currently leads the league in DRPM!) plus cap space and a pick, when instead you could have three future Hall of Famers like Lauri, Zach and Dunn...I can't find a flaw in any of their games or personalities :) . If the Bulls don't beat the Warriors this year with those three in the lineup, they need to fire their coach!
In all seriousness, maybe someday the Chicago Three will show that they have learned the game and can be reliable starters...until then, I'll give Thibs credit for turning 3 flawed players into 2 guys who understand the game and are already fan favorites.
