Tom Thibodeau

[AbeVigodaLive]

If we are in the playoff hunt and our defense improves while continuing to play the space and pace game, do we keep him?

Sure.

As a coach. I think he's done enough harm as an executive to lose that gig.



[Note: That's a big ask... and would be impressive considering how Thibodeau the executive put this team behind the proverbial 8-ball. ]

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

If we are in the playoff hunt and our defense improves while continuing to play the space and pace game, do we keep him?

I would say without a doubt...but only if the first of those three things happens. Glen is no dummy and doesn't want to have to cough up the dough to pay off Thibs unless he absolutely has to. Also, I think it is logical to want to see how the new roster gels before making a move, especially after such a positive start Wednesday.

On the other hand, Glen reads the same articles we do and knows Thibs' actions during the Butler saga were insubordinate...and a billionaire owner has little patience for insubordination. He also has expressed discontent with the Wolves' defense and likely holds Thibs accountable for that. But I don't think he moves on Thibs if we are in the playoff hunt, even if our defensive woes continue or if Thibs reverts to his old offensive philosophy.

I saw video of the joyous post-game Thibs/Glen hug, and didn't read much into it other than what Q said about a relief moment. I do think there is some truth to what Tim says about evidence of a new Thibs, both in terms of coaching style and demeanor. I'm excited about donning Prince Purple and watching the new look Wolves in person tonight, and will be especially interested in observing Thibs. This is a big game tonight for several reasons.

[Monster]

I've said since the trade request that this season has the potential for Thibs to have sort of a Doc Rivers type coaching performance from last season. Doc was thought to be gone as he wasn't likely to perform well with the group he had after the Chris Paul deal (plus they lost Lux to the Rockets) and he likely wasn't looking to be a guy interested in some sort of rebuild. He ended up even with a deep roster navigating through a ton of injuries starting guys like C.J. Williams at times and saying after the season it was one of the most fun seasons of his coaching career. It was a no brained for him to come back and there also seems like a bit of a synergy with the front office with the guys that are now in charge over Doc.

Thibs this offseason added guys that were Thibs types in one sense or another and/or guys that fit the roster needs. Tolliver knows his role shoots 3's Okogie energy and hit 3's in college Rose came back for vet min as well as Deng. It was looking like a Thibs roster.

The next factor was what would they get back from the Butler deal? Would it be a player or players that would help this year? They got back one of the best defensive wings in the entire NBA in Covington and a guy that knows how to play. First game in he plays 40+ minutes. He is a good player and Thibs is gonna like him. Saric is known as a guy that plays hard and is a smart player. People worry about his defense. Thibs has had plenty of guys that played for him that were flawed defensively and he played them plenty. Think Carlos Boozer. He played Mirotic a decent chunk of minutes his rookie year. These guys can be Thibs guys.

Meanwhile as Tim has pointed out in this thread the 3 point shooting has gone up and so has the pace. The new guys took more 3's than anyone on the roster when they arrived. The pace might even be increased and the 3 point shooting certainly could got even higher. Thibs seems to be chilling out (Jimmy might even get a bit of an assist on that) and it's been apparent this has been going on for months.

Would I bet on a Thibs transformation being good enough to be the guy going forward? No I would not. Doc's season last year was a surprise not the expected outcome. That being said I would not be surprised if Thibs the coach guides this team to winning basketball from here on out this season. Thibs was hired because of his coaching chops. He was able to navigate a number of injuries etc while in Chicago. That's mostly how he is going to keep his job is whether or not he can actually coach. Other ways?

Players play well and make him look good like Rose, Okogie and the guys he brought in this deal Saric and Covington. If Towns and Thibs somehow find common ground and there is a more clear connection there that hasn't exactly been solid that would certainly help.

One of the biggest ways that Thibs keeps his job is if there is no obvious choice to replace him. If Monte Williams is the best option and Thibs does as well as Sam Mitchell did (but better record because more proven talent) and Thibs seems more acting like a more reasonable human being and the team actually looks to be heading in the right direction...He may keep his job. If another good coach gets fired that makes a lot of sense then it will be a more tricky situation. That has to happen first. Someone probably gets fired but you never know.

[Lipoli390]

I generally agree with Monster's analysis and LST's view. But I'd boil it down to this:

First, I absolutely agree that Thibodeau should be relieved of his PBO position by the end of this season or shortly thereafter. The way he botched the Jimmy Butler situation, even without considering his insubordination, compels a decision to replace Thibodeau in that role. Moreover, the dual role is highly problematic in anyone's hands and has to end here.

Second, I would keep him as head coach this season for as long as we're in the hunt for a playoff spot. The moment we're no longer realistically in the playoff picture, is the moment Thibodeau should be replaced as head coach - initially on an interim basis for the remainder of the season.

Third, if we remain in the playoff hunt, but fall short in the end, then I think Glen should replace Thibodeau as head coach next summer unless there are extenuating circumstances like KAT missing lots of games due to injury. And it might still make sense to keep Thibodeau even if we miss the playoffs if the team really gels down the stretch and stays in the playoff hunt until the end. It might also make sense to keep him if the key players - especially KAT, rally to him and want him to stay.

What I outlined above as the approach I'd take is, I think, exactly what Glen Taylor will do.

[Monster]

I generally agree with Monster's analysis and LST's view. But I'd boil it down to this:

First, I absolutely agree that Thibodeau should be relieved of his PBO position by the end of this season or shortly thereafter. The way he botched the Jimmy Butler situation, even without considering his insubordination, compels a decision to replace Thibodeau in that role. Moreover, the dual role is highly problematic in anyone's hands and has to end here.

Second, I would keep him as head coach this season for as long as we're in the hunt for a playoff spot. The moment we're no longer realistically in the playoff picture, is the moment Thibodeau should be replaced as head coach - initially on an interim basis for the remainder of the season.

Third, if we remain in the playoff hunt, but fall short in the end, then I think Glen should replace Thibodeau as head coach next summer unless there are extenuating circumstances like KAT missing lots of games due to injury. And it might still make sense to keep Thibodeau even if we miss the playoffs if the team really gels down the stretch and stays in the playoff hunt until the end. It might also make sense to keep him if the key players - especially KAT, rally to him and want him to stay.

What I outlined above as the approach I'd take is, I think, exactly what Glen Taylor will do.

I agree with most everything you said here about Thibs coaching situation except I think this team will have to fail bigtime for Glen to fire Thibs during the season. There is no reason to fire him to instill some coach thats gonna get fired (while also getting a pay raise to finish the season) a few months later.

As for the POBO I think IF....this team looks to be heading in the right direction Thibs and Layden could keep their jobs but Glen might strongly suggest that someone with some energy and stronger people skills would be added to the organization or promoted to have some real legit input in the decision making. Part of whether Thibs and Layden stay is how they navigate the rest of the season. For example they have an absolute glut of players at the modern big position and there is little chance of Deng or even KBD even playing. Do they make some sort of move or work with a guy like Tolliver if he isn't getting minutes? How is Tyus communicated with? Thibs as a coach has some work to do there but I also think the front office can help...Thibs and Layden haven't been reported to be those guys. They need to show some progress there.

Ultimately I don't think with the Wolves adding Covington this team is gonna fall off the map unless there is a whole slew of injuries so I think Thibs is gonna be around all year. Therefore I am somewhat fascinated in seeing what happens with him and if he can continue to evolve both as a person and making various decisions that matter to this team. Its not completely unlike when we had Sam Mitchell as the coach and there was mostly skepticism about whether or not he could be the guy. Sam actually did a pretty good job (or better than decent) coaching (in some tough circumstances) but being an ass to media people didn't help in addition to a guy like Thibs being available. Following this team this season is like a weird social experiment on an abnormal number of levels. Part of it is actually kinda fun. lol Some of it obviously has been pretty onerous.

[thedoper]

Every article and interview seem to indicate that Taylor was aware and accepting of Thibs' plan on Butler the whole way. He now acknowledges it didn't work which even Thibs probably realizes. If he fired him right away over Butler when he was complicit that would be problematic. I for one am in no hurry to have Taylor making any decisions about this team other than selling. That includes firing Thibs. Who do we expect him to rehire? My guess would be someone even worse than Thibs. All and all this team looks as a wholly constructed roster makes sense finally, with a mix of vets and promising youth. Yes we took a complete roller coaster to get there, but I am more about results than process.

[ItsJustSoSab]

Every article and interview seem to indicate that Taylor was aware and accepting of Thibs' plan on Butler the whole way. He now acknowledges it didn't work which even Thibs probably realizes. If he fired him right away over Butler when he was complicit that would be problematic. I for one am in no hurry to have Taylor making any decisions about this team other than selling. That includes firing Thibs. Who do we expect him to rehire? My guess would be someone even worse than Thibs. All and all this team looks as a wholly constructed roster makes sense finally, with a mix of vets and promising youth. Yes we took a complete roller coaster to get there, but I am more about results than process.

All these players, coaches, and teams we've griped about over the years have one thing is common. The guy in charge of them has always been the same with Glen Taylor. He needs to sell this team, although I doubt it happens in the near future

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Hiring an interim coach is dumb. You can't properly evaluate them especially if it were just for a month or two once we are out of the playoff race. Then if they do halfway decent or show promise you are potentially hiring them off a terrible sample size for likely a multi-year deal. All an interim coach can confirm is if they can't be a head coach in this league in that short time. That's not enough to be a worthwhile move and it opens up a big potential problem if they do well with factors like a coaching change and teams tanking and resting guys down the stretch and you have to make a decision with fake data.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

If we are in the playoff hunt and our defense improves while continuing to play the space and pace game, do we keep him?

Sure.

As a coach. I think he's done enough harm as an executive to lose that gig.



[Note: That's a big ask... and would be impressive considering how Thibodeau the executive put this team behind the proverbial 8-ball. ]

He's been better as an executive then as as coach, in my opinion. But it's whatever. He will either retain both roles or he will be fired from both.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

By the way, I'm in on Jerry Stackhouse, Jay Wright, or Ryan Saunders as the next head coach should Tom Thibodeau be fired. I'm not interested in guys like Monte Williams Steve Clifford, unfortunately.