Minnesota Sports Forum

Well, if you are looking for reasons to be upbeat...

Along with the "change in culture" talk is also the change in offensive and defensive systems. More emphasis on sharing the ball and getting "value" shots, such as 3-point shooting, is something we keep hearing. I assume this means Teague will not be over dribbling the ball, and guys like Wiggins and Towns will look to create for others more than they have in the past. All good things and much more enjoyable to watch. On defense there is talk about more switching and taking away 3-point shots. Adding Covington back into the mix is a BIG boost. Assuming Bell works his way into the rotation, he provides some rim protection we have not seen in many years.

The Wolves were a .500+ team with Teague and/or Covington in the lineup (especially when Covington was healthy). Those two are suppose to be good to go. Bell is an interesting addition because of his energy and defensive skills. Napier is actually a decent backup PG. Good things are being said about Culver in training camp. I am looking forward to Okogie's 2nd season. And you never know who might surprise us out of all those young guys -- Layman, KBD, Nowell, Naz, Graham, to name a few candidates.

And that is all said without even mentioning Wiggins! :)

60WinTim wrote:Well, if you are looking for reasons to be upbeat...

Along with the "change in culture" talk is also the change in offensive and defensive systems. More emphasis on sharing the ball and getting "value" shots, such as 3-point shooting, is something we keep hearing. I assume this means Teague will not be over dribbling the ball, and guys like Wiggins and Towns will look to create for others more than they have in the past. All good things and much more enjoyable to watch. On defense there is talk about more switching and taking away 3-point shots. Adding Covington back into the mix is a BIG boost. Assuming Bell works his way into the rotation, he provides some rim protection we have not seen in many years.

The Wolves were a .500+ team with Teague and/or Covington in the lineup (especially when Covington was healthy). Those two are suppose to be good to go. Bell is an interesting addition because of his energy and defensive skills. Napier is actually a decent backup PG. Good things are being said about Culver in training camp. I am looking forward to Okogie's 2nd season. And you never know who might surprise us out of all those young guys -- Layman, KBD, Nowell, Naz, Graham, to name a few candidates.

And that is all said without even mentioning Wiggins! :)

You said it well Tim. I'll add that I think of the lower tier guys Bell might be the most intriguing to me at this point. He seems to be really enjoying himself in the new environment.

A guy I work with has a bunch of family from Cleveland and so he follows the Cleveland teams with varying interest. I said if you have no expectations the Cavs are sort of an interesting team to follow because they have a college coach who has done good things got players into the league and might help maximize/develop some of the players they have. They have some good vets too and some intriguing young talent. How is it all going to look?

The Timber wolves have even more differences with basically a couple constants Towns Wiggins and Teague...and the elder statesman Dieng who will likely not play some nights. Everyone else on the roster has been here less than a year or is coming off a rookie year. It's basically a new coaching staff the whole organization is planning to do things differently. Is this team going to be good? Will it be interesting to watch 75% of nights? Idk but I'm curious. I'm looking at this team as something I am curious about whether or not they can actually raise their stock both as an organization and for players on their roster. I probably find it interesting because it is somewhat similar to what I would have done in the offseason based on the all the factors they faced. Can this organization produce a Spencer Dinwiddie or Jae Crowder type? Covington is another valueable player that was developed out of nowhere. Jake Layman is getting some hype as that type of guy. Let's see. I'm looking forward to the season not because I think we are some team on the cusp of greatness but I'm curious to see if we actually take some steps towards that. We won't have all the copious amounts of questions surrounding this team answered this season but maybe wee see some actual signs of life. I'm here for it.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Lurking. I don't have a ton of hope for this team, but I also can't get excited about tanking. I never really did anyway, but it seems even more desperate because of the new lottery odds.

I love the way Okogie plays, but I don't see the offensive skillset for him to be that great. I like Covington. I'm vaguely intrigued by Culver, but no more than most of the dozen or more lottery picks we've had in recent years. Other than that, I'm meh. Don't really like Towns' personality, but if he truly develops on the defensive end, I will really enjoy watching him for these next couple of years before he forces a trade. Nobody else on this team interests me.

I'm somewhat interested in how Rosas changes things, but I think it'll take a couple years before we can really say there.

I think there are a lot of other teams I'd rather follow for various reasons, and I do casually, but I just can't quit following this perennially disappointing team. It's like being stuck in a loveless marriage at this point.

Anybody gonna be in Germany anytime soon? Doug? It's weird to have been posting on this board for . . . Jesus, too fucking long. Back when we were all still on the ESPN board discussing the Cassell and Sprewell trades. Basically as long as I've actually used the damn internet. Weird to know you guys only as little icons and fake names. Would be fun to get a beer and watch a game with you guys in person someday.

Not a fan of towns personality either, but I still enjoy watching him play. Culver seems a lot more likable, at least in my opinion. Add that to Covington and okogie and it's not bad. Wiggins seems like a great guy if he just gave a shit about basketball:)

kekgeek1 wrote:Ya nothing much to talk about.

We could have the Wiggins discussion for the millionth time

Our rookies didn't play in the Summer League and Culver might be damn good who knows but at this moment dosen't have main stream media appeal.

We made no big signing. The guys we signed are all min signings and hopping they become something.

Teague, Towns and Cov are sort of who they are at this point nothing really to talk about.

There has a big culure talk all over social media but until we see that translate to wins I really don't care about it. They can love eachother but if they that translates to 25 wins who cares.

I feel like this is the most down I have been for the wolves in a long time because we have a stud in KAT and about 3 years to build around him with no cap space, and without hitting on a pick we will be in rebuild mode in 3 years. I hope I am wrong but at this moment I am supper down because once again we are banking on Wiggins taking a step and if he doesn't we will suck again.

I hear ya Kek. This team is just outgunned in the West. We have one big gun in KAT and a bunch of role players and underachievers along side him. That might get us a 7th or 8th seed in the East, but it's a bottom 3 or 4 roster in the West.

As much as you may not like this, a fan of this team will have no choice but to hang his or her hat on the somewhat amorphous "culture and process" narrative. As you mention, there is some positive vibes on this front, especially in comparison to the Thibs "DO YOUR JOB!" and cone-of-silence philosophy.

We've seen front offices and coaches like Brett Brown in Philly and Kenny Atkinson in Brooklyn lay a strong foundation with inferior talent such that once they started getting the talent, good habits were already a part of the culture. But man, they piled up a lot of losses along the way....

The chronic problem with this franchise is two-fold: Poor talent and poor culture. We're hamstrung for a while on #1, but Rosas & Saunders can start laying the foundation on #2.

Or at least try....

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Ya nothing much to talk about.

We could have the Wiggins discussion for the millionth time

Our rookies didn't play in the Summer League and Culver might be damn good who knows but at this moment dosen't have main stream media appeal.

We made no big signing. The guys we signed are all min signings and hopping they become something.

Teague, Towns and Cov are sort of who they are at this point nothing really to talk about.

There has a big culure talk all over social media but until we see that translate to wins I really don't care about it. They can love eachother but if they that translates to 25 wins who cares.

I feel like this is the most down I have been for the wolves in a long time because we have a stud in KAT and about 3 years to build around him with no cap space, and without hitting on a pick we will be in rebuild mode in 3 years. I hope I am wrong but at this moment I am supper down because once again we are banking on Wiggins taking a step and if he doesn't we will suck again.

I hear ya Kek. This team is just outgunned in the West. We have one big gun in KAT and a bunch of role players and underachievers along side him. That might get us a 7th or 8th seed in the East, but it's a bottom 3 or 4 roster in the West.

As much as you may not like this, a fan of this team will have no choice but to hang his or her hat on the somewhat amorphous "culture and process" narrative. As you mention, there is some positive vibes on this front, especially in comparison to the Thibs "DO YOUR JOB!" and cone-of-silence philosophy.

We've seen front offices and coaches like Brett Brown in Philly and Kenny Atkinson in Brooklyn lay a strong foundation with inferior talent such that once they started getting the talent, good habits were already a part of the culture. But man, they piled up a lot of losses along the way....

The chronic problem with this franchise is two-fold: Poor talent and poor culture. We're hamstrung for a while on #1, but Rosas & Saunders can start laying the foundation on #2.

Or at least try....

We all know the team is outgunned. So we pin our hopes on Towns becoming a transcendent player. Fair enough... but even then, we know how it'll play out:

1) Empty stats. He's a loser. "He doesn't contribute to winning like that guy averaging 16/7 as a 4th option for that winner over there!!!"
- Which has KAT pondering "what do I need to do to get respect."

2) Towns has such a great season and improves so much that his lack of supporting cast becomes the story.
- Which has KAT pondering "where can I get those teammates."

This is less a pessimistic take on the Wolves or a woe-is-us one and more about how narratives are created. I've heard national pundits this offseason be more open about two things:

1) Calling out players for NOT asking for a trade. For example, Bill Simmons has been railing about Mike Trout not asking for a trade and using it as a reason not to vote for him for MVP.
2) Dismissive "flyover" or "middle America" comments as if those franchises are second-rate.

Now, we can sit here and say "who cares?" they're paid to be noticed. But NBA players hear this stuff. Other voters hear this stuff. We've already seen that Towns being on a losing team is at least one reason he lost about $30M. This is the tail wagging the dog type of stuff. And in the end, NONE of it looks good for teams like Minnesota.

It's just business. And the NBA has shown very clearly this week that $$$ trumps everything. So nobody is going to feel sorry for teams like the Wolves or for good players like Towns on bad teams like the Wolves. It's better for the brand if the Wolves were terrible and Towns was elsewhere. It's the league right now.

Abe, I agree that the national media creates narratives that work against the Wolves, but ultimately, teams from smaller markets can and do succeed in the face of such bias. If anything, it forces greater discipline and creativity. We've seen how the Lakers for a few years just took for granted that elite talent would come flocking to their doorstep. When that didn't happen, the result was 8 years of mediocrity.

Ultimately, Taylor and his past crappy hires and decisions are 80% the cause of our ills, plain bad luck 15%, and being a flyover franchise perhaps the other 5%,

As for KAT, it seems to me trading him might be an option this franchise needs to consider as a pre-emptive strike to a potential player/agent/media push. If, for example, we're halfway through the season and things are going miserably (like even worse than the 38 win projection or whatever it is), then I think that option needs to be put on the table before the national media and selective leaks turn it into a narrative next offseason.

Abe is right about this. One fascinating thing to watch this year is the rhetoric coming out of Milwaukee about Giannis' pending free agency. To his credit Giannis has always said all the right things about Milwaukee, his team, and his teammates. He's built some hope within the organization and fan base that he may actually be different. He may actually stay in flyover country, rejecting the more glamorous NBA markets. But it won't be long before the rubber actually meets the road. It's fascinating because Giannis is on a real contender, surrounded by good players, good culture, and good coaches. He can also make far more money on his next contract in Milwaukee. Given these factors, if he decides to take his talents elsewhere, what does that say about the future of mid-size markets in this league? I mean what hope would there actually be? If he leaves, Milwaukee will be terrible until they luck into another guy like him. It could be generations before that happens again. If he decides to stay that team will likely contend until the day he ultimately retires/leaves. This is a watershed moment that is going to play out.

For my money, I think the Bucks have a hard time matching last year's performance. I think they miss Malcolm Brogdon more than they think they will. They made a mistake in using a large chunk of their cap on Middleton. They fail to make the NBA finals again. Giannis realizes no one is coming to Milwaukee to help him, so he decides to leave. I can't see him in New York or LA, but maybe the Warriors, Houston, or Boston. I hope I'm really wrong about this.

With posts about the narrative being a factor for this franchise I thought I would post that Zach Lowe had this reply on Twitter to a Jon K story about Jake Layman.

https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1179479127713308674?s=21

"Wolves had a lot of sneaky good little signings over the summer."

I haven't been this disinterested in the team in years. Given up on the rookie hope after all the past failures, most of the guys are who they are, Saunders seem in over his head to me, very little talent, etc. At least this board is still chugging along, without you guys I wouldn't waste my time on this team

ItsJustSoSab wrote:I haven't been this disinterested in the team in years. Given up on the rookie hope after all the past failures, most of the guys are who they are, Saunders seem in over his head to me, very little talent, etc. At least this board is still chugging along, without you guys I wouldn't waste my time on this team

Anyone remember when this Enjin board was put in motion? I think it was the year before we drafted Zach LaVine so something like 2013? Does that sound right? The Enjin forum is still going strong heading into its seventh season -- pretty impressive considering we lost our site founder JDVikes somewhere along the way.