Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:Wiggins is gonna get his max deal, so I'm not gonna fight it, but man it's gonna suck to reward a guy who quite frankly isn't putting the work in and I fear he never will because playing half-assed has gotten him to this point.


0 rebounds for a guy who is 6'8''. Just an F at all things intangibles

I think we need to accept the fact that he is a volume scorer and not much else. Folks can hope he'll get better at other things, but until he proves it night and night out, the front office has to go into the offseason assuming otherwise.

So, if you accept the fact he's a pure scorer, you put him at SG and find a SF that defends, hustles, rebounds, chases loose balls, and hopefully can hit the open 3. Let Wiggins be DeMar DeRozan because that's where he's headed right now.

As for Thibs, he has to be disappointed in himself and his team. He brings what is considered the best defensive coaching chops in the NBA and we barely move the needle over the last two years of pathetic defense. Very depressing.

1. Wiggins was playing great defense when our run for the 8 seed began and he just ran out of gas like he has every year because he literally has played the most regular season minutes in the NBA since his rookie year.

2. Thibs can't force guys like Towns to give a shit defensively. There was a point this season where Towns was statistically the worst defensive big in the league (even worse than Okafor). When Towns decides to play defense and not be a revolving door trying to not foul our defense will significantly improve. Defense starts at the rim. Good rim protectors make everyone else better defensively and we have two of the worst rim protectors in the league in Dieng and Towns. Get guys who protect the rim and we can be an average defense which is all we need with our offense to win more than we lose.

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:Wiggins is gonna get his max deal, so I'm not gonna fight it, but man it's gonna suck to reward a guy who quite frankly isn't putting the work in and I fear he never will because playing half-assed has gotten him to this point.


0 rebounds for a guy who is 6'8''. Just an F at all things intangibles

I think we need to accept the fact that he is a volume scorer and not much else. Folks can hope he'll get better at other things, but until he proves it night and night out, the front office has to go into the offseason assuming otherwise.

So, if you accept the fact he's a pure scorer, you put him at SG and find a SF that defends, hustles, rebounds, chases loose balls, and hopefully can hit the open 3. Let Wiggins be DeMar DeRozan because that's where he's headed right now.

As for Thibs, he has to be disappointed in himself and his team. He brings what is considered the best defensive coaching chops in the NBA and we barely move the needle over the last two years of pathetic defense. Very depressing.

1. Wiggins was playing great defense when our run for the 8 seed began and he just ran out of gas like he has every year because he literally has played the most regular season minutes in the NBA since his rookie year.

2. Thibs can't force guys like Towns to give a shit defensively. There was a point this season where Towns was statistically the worst defensive big in the league (even worse than Okafor). When Towns decides to play defense and not be a revolving door trying to not foul our defense will significantly improve. Defense starts at the rim. Good rim protectors make everyone else better defensively and we have two of the worst rim protectors in the league in Dieng and Towns. Get guys who protect the rim and we can be an average defense which is all we need with our offense to win more than we lose.

Agree on both points. Andrew is spent right now. Part of that is on the coach, and part of it is on him. But the fact is he has no legs right now. He needs to improve his endurance this offseason. It doesn't mean he's a one trick pony, or that he should be a 6th man, or that he's only going to be a volume scorer. Can we let him have an off game without these tired arguments coming up time and time again?

Defense is played from the inside out. The biggest key is having an inside presence. I don't care how good you are on the perimeter, if you don't have a force inside you are going to be limited defensively. There is no reason KAT can't be a very good defender and help anchor the whole unit. I agree, first he as to care. Second, he has to decide to take it upon himself to improve. And third he has to expend the effort on the defensive end. Once that happens, every one on defense will be better and their numbers will improve.

I'm surprised how much heat KAT gets on here. I agree that I'd like to see him defend better. But at the end of the day, he's got a 25.3 PER, 10.7 WS and 4.6 VORP. Nobody else on the team really comes close to those figures. IMO he's less of the problem than some other guys. This is only KAT's second season and he's been their best player since day one. Of all the players on this team, I'd give KAT a pass. I think he needs more help along the lines of what Q was proposing (get some tough defenders to compliment him).

Carlos Danger wrote:I'm surprised how much heat KAT gets on here. I agree that I'd like to see him defend better. But at the end of the day, he's got a 25.3 PER, 10.7 WS and 4.6 VORP. Nobody else on the team really comes close to those figures. IMO he's less of the problem than some other guys. This is only KAT's second season and he's been their best player since day one. Of all the players on this team, I'd give KAT a pass. I think he needs more help along the lines of what Q was proposing (get some tough defenders to compliment him).

He plays the most important position defensively and he's one of the worst defenders in the league. You just can't have one way centers and have a good defense. Kevin Love got a lot of heat here defensively so I don't see why it should be different for KAT. The common denominator is neither played D and we just couldn't win much because of it. KG had no help and we still made the playoffs every year because he was an elite defensive anchor. If Towns wants to win he needs to step up defensively pure and simple. The fact that he hasn't really played hard on that end is is worth criticism because it is a significant factor in why we can't win games. What good is 30/15 if it's a layup line on the other end that just leads to highly efficient offense for everyone of the other team?

Vonleh looks at least like a competent defender.

Dieng doing some solid work here. He has come up with some tough rebounds against Nurkic. And then He gets beat by Nurkic running out down the floor. Ugh.

Mstermisty wrote:I guess I'll be the other guy to admit I'm watching the game. But just turned it off. They are mailing it in.

One observation: Rush is completely worthless. Why he is still starting or playing at all is baffling. Thibs just needs to give those minutes to Dunn and Bazz. Might as well start Dunn, nothing to lose and he needs the minutes.

He is being asked to do more than he is capable and the reason he plays is he can hit a 3. Dunn has been playing well he may eat into some of Rush's minutes. At some point they should probably play some of the younger guys a lot more of his minutes.

khans2k5 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:I'm surprised how much heat KAT gets on here. I agree that I'd like to see him defend better. But at the end of the day, he's got a 25.3 PER, 10.7 WS and 4.6 VORP. Nobody else on the team really comes close to those figures. IMO he's less of the problem than some other guys. This is only KAT's second season and he's been their best player since day one. Of all the players on this team, I'd give KAT a pass. I think he needs more help along the lines of what Q was proposing (get some tough defenders to compliment him).

He plays the most important position defensively and he's one of the worst defenders in the league. You just can't have one way centers and have a good defense. Kevin Love got a lot of heat here defensively so I don't see why it should be different for KAT. The common denominator is neither played D and we just couldn't win much because of it. KG had no help and we still made the playoffs every year because he was an elite defensive anchor. If Towns wants to win he needs to step up defensively pure and simple. The fact that he hasn't really played hard on that end is is worth criticism because it is a significant factor in why we can't win games. What good is 30/15 if it's a layup line on the other end that just leads to highly efficient offense for everyone of the other team?

I won't disagree with a lot of what your wrote. Having a good anchor would help. But I'm just curious what metric you are using to determine he's one of the worst defenders in the NBA? He seems more middle of the pack based on the stats I'm looking at but we might be looking at different things.

Q12543 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:Wiggins is gonna get his max deal, so I'm not gonna fight it, but man it's gonna suck to reward a guy who quite frankly isn't putting the work in and I fear he never will because playing half-assed has gotten him to this point.


0 rebounds for a guy who is 6'8''. Just an F at all things intangibles

I think we need to accept the fact that he is a volume scorer and not much else. Folks can hope he'll get better at other things, but until he proves it night and night out, the front office has to go into the offseason assuming otherwise.

So, if you accept the fact he's a pure scorer, you put him at SG and find a SF that defends, hustles, rebounds, chases loose balls, and hopefully can hit the open 3. Let Wiggins be DeMar DeRozan because that's where he's headed right now.

As for Thibs, he has to be disappointed in himself and his team. He brings what is considered the best defensive coaching chops in the NBA and we barely move the needle over the last two years of pathetic defense. Very depressing.

22 and he is what he is...

I think it's a little easier to give Towns a pass the way he has been playing lately. Even if he completely blows on defense (which is think he has been better) he is doing so much out there with a ton of effort. He still hasn't been good enough though. I think he will figure it out. People forget because the guy is a really talented player he is 21 and in his 2nd year in the league.

Payne time!!!

Glad he is healthy. I would like to see him get some minutes if he is ready to see if what he showed early in the season was legit or not.

It was garbage time and at times he looked gassed but he hit a jumper and seemed to have a clue of what he was doing. It feels really weird but I kinda hope they bring him back on a cheap deal. He is more of the type of guy they need than a Jordan Hill type as he can move pretty well and has a chance of hitting some 3's. I'm feeling like this team needs more PFs than it does Centers.