Minnesota Sports Forum

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:You know I have been on your side in this argument from the beginning Doper. We had one offseason that we had cap space going forward and that was last offseason. Even if we didn't do the Butler trade, Lavine and Wiggins extensions either way so we would not have cap space this offseason.

The only thing I could see Thibs doing as bad was the Gorgui extension (I thought it was good at the time) and that is only because when we did it. You shouldn't extend role players when there extension is up as a general rule. If we didn't extend Gorgui I am guessing he would have signed close to 8 mil a year like Jamychal Green did this offseason. Allowing us to sign CJ Miles. But all in all CJ Miles was not the difference between us contending this season and not.

Now I can see why the Wiggins extention is bad. I will also agree that he has not played like a max player. I would say though it was a risk for whatever Thibs decided to do. Here were Thibs options could have extended him like he did (and hope he lives up to the contract), Let him walk this offseason (Wolves would of had approx. 13 mil to fill the whole wiggins left, that includes renouncing the rights of Belly, Jamal opting out and cutting Cole). Waiting to the offseason and Wiggins gets the max anyways from another team and we match via RFA (Same result as we have currently as Wiggins but also teams can add annoying wording in players contracts like the Kings or Nets "can't remember what team did with Otto Porter). Or we could of let him hit RFA, he does not get the max, lets say he gets approx 20 mil a year (we still would have no cap space and we run the risk if Wiggins does hit is potential he will want out the first chance he gets like Love and Hayward did because they felt disrespected.)


In the end stars win games in this league, we need our players to hit star status. Hopefully they can do that. I still am worried that we have no backdoor plan if they don't hit their potential. But all in all it comes down to development of Kat and Wiggins or getting lucky in the Draft.

If we're counting on "getting lucky" in the draft, we're in big trouble. I actually agree with you on this summer's draft as one way the Wolves might improve. My point is that it's time we stopped counting on luck. Luck is for rubes. We should expect more than luck from the highly paid supposed experts in the Wolves front office.

Maybe Luck is the wrong word. I am just saying all of the teams that are playing got a huge piece late in the draft.

Sixers: Covington
Jazz: Gobert, Ingles off the street, traded a late pick to move up to late lottery to pick Mitchell
Rockets: Capela, Also used late picks in Decker and Harrell to help the trade go through to get Paul
Warriors: Green
Pelicans: One of the few teams that I can't think of a player
Celtics: Rozier, Ojelye
Raptors: Almost there whole bench
Cavs: Use a lot of there late picks to acquire there team in, Korver, Hill, Nance, Clarkson.

Even look at other big players in the NBA.

Greek Freak, Millsap, Jokic, PG13, Leonard, Ginobili, Parker, Kuzma, IT

I think there is luck involved getting these players in the late lotto to the 2nd round, I bet you could ask almost all these GMs and say I didn't think they were going to be that good. You are right there is a skill set to draft a good player later in the draft, IMO think there is a lot of luck in getting a special player late.

longstrangetrip wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:You know I have been on your side in this argument from the beginning Doper. We had one offseason that we had cap space going forward and that was last offseason. Even if we didn't do the Butler trade, Lavine and Wiggins extensions either way so we would not have cap space this offseason.

The only thing I could see Thibs doing as bad was the Gorgui extension (I thought it was good at the time) and that is only because when we did it. You shouldn't extend role players when there extension is up as a general rule. If we didn't extend Gorgui I am guessing he would have signed close to 8 mil a year like Jamychal Green did this offseason. Allowing us to sign CJ Miles. But all in all CJ Miles was not the difference between us contending this season and not.

Now I can see why the Wiggins extention is bad. I will also agree that he has not played like a max player. I would say though it was a risk for whatever Thibs decided to do. Here were Thibs options could have extended him like he did (and hope he lives up to the contract), Let him walk this offseason (Wolves would of had approx. 13 mil to fill the whole wiggins left, that includes renouncing the rights of Belly, Jamal opting out and cutting Cole). Waiting to the offseason and Wiggins gets the max anyways from another team and we match via RFA (Same result as we have currently as Wiggins but also teams can add annoying wording in players contracts like the Kings or Nets "can't remember what team did with Otto Porter). Or we could of let him hit RFA, he does not get the max, lets say he gets approx 20 mil a year (we still would have no cap space and we run the risk if Wiggins does hit is potential he will want out the first chance he gets like Love and Hayward did because they felt disrespected.)


In the end stars win games in this league, we need our players to hit star status. Hopefully they can do that. I still am worried that we have no backdoor plan if they don't hit their potential. But all in all it comes down to development of Kat and Wiggins or getting lucky in the Draft.

If we're counting on "getting lucky" in the draft, we're in big trouble. I actually agree with you on this summer's draft as one way the Wolves might improve. My point is that it's time we stopped counting on luck. Luck is for rubes. We should expect more than luck from the highly paid supposed experts in the Wolves front office.

Maybe Luck is the wrong word. I am just saying all of the teams that are playing got a huge piece late in the draft.

Sixers: Covington
Jazz: Gobert, Ingles off the street, traded a late pick to move up to late lottery to pick Mitchell
Rockets: Capela, Also used late picks in Decker and Harrell to help the trade go through to get Paul
Warriors: Green
Pelicans: One of the few teams that I can't think of a player
Celtics: Rozier, Ojelye
Raptors: Almost there whole bench
Cavs: Use a lot of there late picks to acquire there team in, Korver, Hill, Nance, Clarkson.

Even look at other big players in the NBA.

Greek Freak, Millsap, Jokic, PG13, Leonard, Ginobili, Parker, Kuzma, IT

I think there is luck involved getting these players in the late lotto to the 2nd round, I bet you could ask almost all these GMs and say I didn't think they were going to be that good. You are right there is a skill set to draft a good player later in the draft, IMO think there is a lot of luck in getting a special player late.

Here's what we don't know for sure, kek (although I certainly have a view :)). Is Toronto's bench so much more effective than ours because they got lucky with players, or because they are more effective in playing and coaching their bench? Arguably, players 6-12 for the Wolves had a better pedigree coming in than their counterparts in Toronto. But Casey gives his bench a lot more minutes and rope. NBA players need consistent sufficient minutes and a coach that doesn't micromanage them to realize their potential.

Obviously I'm a huge critic of Thibs the coach, but I'm not as critical of Thibs the POBO. Sure, there are moves he has made that I didn't love, but on balance, I believe he has made the roster stronger (I would be much more in favor of replacing the coach than the POBO). Cole Aldrich is just one example. You can find articles on the internet pleading for the Clippers to keep him after his solid season 3 years ago, and many of us lauded Thibs when he signed him. When he played him, he was clumsy on offense but physical and effective on defense and the boards, and his on/off numbers were fine. Q often talks about the weak lower base of our bigs and how easily they get pushed around, and he's right...that's not an issue with Cole. There's no question that Duane Casey would have found an effective role for Cole, just like Rivers did before him.

Yes, there is some luck in finding a diamond in the rough like Mitchell, but I still maintain effective coaching has more to do with bench success than luck.